TKS and IFR people. What is your procedure?

[r0ckst4r]

Just curious about those among us that fly IFR with a TKS system.  Do you have a set procedure that you use with winter flying?  For example, I would assume that when encountering clouds or other visible moisture at or near freezing that you would switch on your TKS/pitot heat/prop heat.  Are there any other times that would apply?  Take-off or landing even when clear?  I haven't had to use it yet (thankfully) other than testing it and just curious at what everyone's experience has been

[philiplane]

Use it for a few minutes after takeoff to prime the system, even if clear. When these systems sit too long, they dry out and don't flow well, or evenly. The glycol does last awhile on the surfaces. It keeps them slippery. I climb through the layers with a system on low, and then when you're above the crud, shut if off. Turn it on before descent through an expected icing layer, so the plane will be greased up prior to hitting the ice. It takes less than you think to keep the ice from sticking in light icing conditions.

One time, on the way back from Duluth just ahead of a nasty winter front in an SR22 FIKI, stopping in Rockford IL, we made good use of the TKS. Turned it on high during final approach in a snowstorm, greased the plane up good, topped up the TKS with the 2.5 gallons jugs on board, refueled quickly, and got out with the system on high. The heavy wet snow was coming down at 5 inches an hour. The airport was closed for two days after. 

[alextstone]

Yes, I have a few suggestions:

During Flight Planning:

1. make "go" decision only if forecast is for a layer of icing along the route that can be climbed over or flown under  and does not contain SLD or severe icing in the forecast.
2. plan the exit route now

Before Flight:

1.  check fluid level, fill as necessary
2. ground run the system during preflight and walk around to verify that all panels are wetting across their lengths
3. test pitot  and stall warning heat with your hand (do this soon after you flip the switch on as it gets hot)

5 Min Before Entering Visible Moisture:

1. turn system on "high"
2. observe fluid wetting the wings
3. reconfirm your exit route (if needed)

That's what I do, your method may be better...

[FlyingScot]

I follow a very similar procedure. I always top off the system to the point it overflowing before departing – it’s the only way I know I have a full tank.

The important thing I have found is to frequently prime the system by turning it on  - in flight, not on the ground, because the pressures on the wing in flight help the system flow evenly across all panels. I do this every flight in winter without fail.  If you let the system dry out, it can take a long time for it to flow again correctly. I also test the system on the ground just to confirm operation every few flights as a sanity check (but never in the hangar, b/c it makes a mess).

if you keep it primed however, it’s actually pretty surprising how quickly the wings wet once you turn it on. Just a few minutes. This makes it possible to activate system essentially when you need it. I always turn it on a few minutes before entering layers when icing may be present, on low is usually sufficient. I use the high setting only rarely, like if there’s a visible frozen precipitation like moderate snow (but never go anywhere near SLD!)

I fly a lot in the great lakes ice machine, so having TKS on the plane gives me a lot of peace of mind, not to mention that of my pax. 

I have also found the system uses a surprising amount of fluid if you have to use it for extended periods, so I always make arrangements to have extra available, either by carrying it or storing it at frequent destinations. 
 

 

 

 

[exM20K]

In addition to all the good advice above….

1.  The windshield pumps are supposedly helpful in priming the system and are prone to seizure if not used.  So a cycle of both is a good idea before departure.

2. Don’t be surprised if the system won’t come up to pressure (steady green) if the fluid is warm, especially on the ground. Just look for good flow from all the surfaces and the mist fro the prop slinger.

3. There is a good pre-flight checklist in the POH supplement which I’ve incorporated into my ForeFlight checklist.

-dan

[philip_g]

On brand c i use the windshield spray bar to purge the system. If I expect icing I'll wet it on the ground to be sure all panels wet out then kick it on before entering clouds. If I'm not expecting icing but it becomes a potential issue I'll purge it in high in flight. There just isn't much to it but the g1000 checklists have an icing section to complete

Edited December 19, 2021 by philip_g

[ilovecornfields]

I agree with what was said above. In the Ovation the minimum icing speed is 120 KIAS so I sometimes have to remind myself not to go slower. And minimal (or no) flaps for landing.

TKS is pretty awesome. I just made a very uneventful flight a couple of days ago that I would never have attempted without ice protection. Having fluid at your destination is nice as well.

[V1VRV2]

I don’t turn on my TKS unless I’m picking up ice. No visual confirmation no TKS. I’ve used it like this with 100% success. I put it on high until the ice is gone then switch to low. Any accumulated ice usually disappears in about 30 seconds. I always have it primed before I enter expected icing conditions. I use foreflight flight plan profile view to plan my out. No out and I won’t fly. It’s a bitch not being able to use spoilers when icing has been encountered. Descents need good planning without spoilers since the plane can be a handful to slow down without shock cooling th engine.

[Cruiser]

I tried this once when I was above the clouds. Didn't need it until the approach. Turned it on just above the clouds and started getting ice as soon as I entered them. I was on the ground before the TKS started clearing the ice. 

I would recommend turning it on well before you need it. 

[Austintatious]

I'm not TKS equipped.... My question to everyone would be.  What does the documentation say?

TKS is unique in that it is a DE-ice and an ANTI ice.  All other systems are one or the other, even heat... Because while heat can melt Ice away, it is not to be used in that manner.  It is an ANTI- Ice system... Conversely, inflatable boots are DE-Ice equipment.

 

 

[carusoam]

Our TKS folks left a message the other day…

Find @CAV Ice…

And their latest posts…

https://mooneyspace.com/profile/18670-cav-ice/

-a-

[philip_g]

37 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

I'm not TKS equipped.... My question to everyone would be.  What does the documentation say?

TKS is unique in that it is a DE-ice and an ANTI ice.  All other systems are one or the other, even heat... Because while heat can melt Ice away, it is not to be used in that manner.  It is an ANTI- Ice system... Conversely, inflatable boots are DE-Ice equipment.

 

 

Ideally you want it wet out before encountering ice 

[Geoff]

Comments that work for me:

1. Ensure the system is working properly before you need it.

2. Be sure to have enough fluid

3. Turn it on at least 5 min before you bet your life on it

4. Have a plan if it doesn't work as expected

5. Turn OFF the windshield spray on final approach

6. Use the cabin heater to help with the windshield

Edited December 20, 2021 by Geoff

[Little Dipper]

I've had TKS for known ice since 1997 and both agree and disagree with some that has been said.   Do yourself a favor and find a cold day with icing conditions when there is a overcast cloud deck between 4,000 & 8,000 feet.   File at 5 or 6 thousand and fly a couple of hundred miles thru it.    You will have plenty of outs and he experience you will gain will be well worth the cost of the tks fluid and the gas.  You will see for yourself how well your TKS works and be in better position to make go/no go decisions in the future.   

Edited December 20, 2021 by Little Dipper
I flunked third grade spelling :)

[Little Dipper]

12 minutes ago, philip_g said:

Does the Mooney windshield sprayer run continuously? Brand c you hit it and it runs for a few seconds and stops. Agree it's not a great idea on final

The sprayer runs continuously just like on brand c. 

[exM20K]

37 minutes ago, philip_g said:

Brand c doesn't. It's a momentary switch that just gives you like 10 seconds of juice 

Mooney is same.  Prop runs continuously.

-dan

[ilovecornfields]

The windshield sprayer does NOT run continuously. It is a momentary switch. With the TKS going the prop sprayer will get the windshield wet but the windshield spray bar is separate.

[Little Dipper]

I didn't speak clearly.   I was referring to the spray running off the prop slinger.   You don't need to use the spray bar in most lite to light/moderate conditions.

[Cruiser]

my experience has been the prop slinger always put enough on the windshield that I didn't need the separate windshield sprayer on. It clears the windshield very quickly and I have used it for a quick clear once in a while. 

[cliffy]

Just don't get complacent about ice!  It can overwhelm your TKS capability when you least expect it.

I've actually flown a Boeing into unforecast icing on and ILS approach from the FAF to landing where we accumulated so much ice we could not have made a missed approach.  Couldn't have retracted the flaps and gear and had high drag from the ice.   Normal approach FF 6.000 lbs/hr  -on this approach at mins-  it needed 9,000 lbs/hr to maintain Ref +10  50% more power just to stay in the air. AND all ICING EQUIPMENT WAS ON  

We were in the clear just before the OM and descended into the crap from there. No one else reported any ice ahead of us. 

3 INCHES ON THE GEAR AND NEAR 2 INCHES ON THE STAB AND RUDDER.  FLAP SLOTS WERE BLOCKED FULL,  WINGS HAD ABOUT AN INCH.

Play with icing at your peril.   Conditions change quickly BTDT

BTW Question for extra credit-  Why doesn't the 737 have any deice on the stab and vertical fin?

[Little Dipper]

"Because the horizontal stabilizer/elevator has been designed so that even with a degradation of lift due to the ice, it still produces a sufficient tail down force to maintain control, even when approaching the stall speed?"     

Cliffy,  I didn't know...You sent me to the books.  The above is my guess.      I completely agree with you.   If the TKS can't keep up icing conditions you are in,  you are in severe icing condition and in trouble.

 

[Schllc]

This thread has been very edifying. 
While I just got my first Mooney with fiki, I don’t anticipate it really changing how I plan my flights 
I would venture to bet that unless you have actually been in really severe icing conditions, you really can’t imagine how bad it can get, and how quickly it can get that bad. 
I believe most people underestimate this phenomenon, but once it happens to you, if you survive, you don’t forget it. 
My single engine piston doesn’t ever need to plan to tangle with ice, my purposes are purely for escape and incidental. 

[Cruiser]

Knowing the typical weather conditions in the areas you fly helps.

If all winter long you get a cloud layer a couple thousand feet thick that normally produces ice and you only need to get through it to sunshine or the ground. It is pretty easy with TKS

[cliffy]

1 hour ago, Little Dipper said:

"Because the horizontal stabilizer/elevator has been designed so that even with a degradation of lift due to the ice, it still produces a sufficient tail down force to maintain control, even when approaching the stall speed?"     

Cliffy,  I didn't know...You sent me to the books.  The above is my guess.      I completely agree with you.   If the TKS can't keep up icing conditions you are in,  you are in severe icing condition and in trouble.

 

Tip of the hat!   Basically correct  The 737 (IIRC) had 4X6 lumber bolted to the LEs of the tail feathers and flown that way to simulate extreme ice accumulation and it didn't affect the flight qualities so no ice protection needed. 

You want extra points?   Why were the reversers on 737-200s angled rotationally on deployment in relation to the ground ?

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

Knowing the typical weather conditions in the areas you fly helps.

If all winter long you get a cloud layer a couple thousand feet thick that normally produces ice and you only need to get through it to sunshine or the ground. It is pretty easy with TKS

That’s exactly why I would like tks.  We moved to Spokane, WA.  A “nice” day in the winter is cold and grey.  Freezing on the ground, 1000’ ceiling with tops at 2000’ (agl).  Sunny above.  Unfortunately there’s light to sometimes moderate ice in that stratus layer and I’m not gonna go through either up or down in my F.

On “bad” winter days it’s usually obvious that there’s really no reason to fly any kind of piston airplane no matter how it’s equipped.