Single 10” G3X with Garmin EIS in a turbo

[PJClark]

My EDM 900 has both IAT and CDT.  The Rocket has an IAT limit of 235, which has never happened.  Most I've seen was about 150.  CDT has no limit because it's irrelevant but JPI programmed a 235 limit, which I did see in climb last summer.

BL you can have both and you can have it Primary if needed.

[Z W]

An update to this I found during a recent flight:

On the G500TXi, you can configure custom "alerts" for CHTs.  Go to the engine page, then in the settings menu at the bottom, a few pages in, you can set a custom CHT maximum temperature and enable the alert.  Mine was set to 380, which I probably did setting the thing up, but I had not also clicked the button to enable the alert.

Once enabled, if CHT on any cylinder goes over your set value, an "A" (for alert) shows up at the bottom of the G500TXi, on any page, and flashes at you.  This is very handy and removes the need to check the engine page periodically in cruise to make sure you don't need to adjust your cowl flaps.  For me, at least, this removes the need to have highest CHT displayed at all times on the primary engine information system page.  As long as there is no alert I know they're all under 380.

You can also set alert values for TIT and maybe some other things.

[PT20J]

According to the installation manual the G3X has similar capability. It has to be set up in configuration mode. It can also drive an external light. 

[Rick Junkin]

TIT can be displayed on the G3X EIS strip, it just takes a little reconfiguration of the displayed parameters.

Reviving this thread about G3X EIS turbo parameter display capabilities. I did a Mooneyspace search and can’t find anywhere that this question was answered and I finally figured out how to get TIT displayed on the EIS strip on the PFD. I probably could have called Garmin to get the answer but I had some fun finding it on my own.

The key is to go in to configuration mode on the G3X, select the Engine and Airframe tile, then on the GEA 25 Inputs tab select the Exhaust Gas Temp, Volts and Amps pages and select “Hide” for each of those parameters under Display Options/EIS Display. All three need to be changed to Hide because the G3X Has them prioritized above TIT for display on the EIS.

Once you hide those parameters a TIT bar/value is displayed under a CHT bar/value of the hottest cylinder and you have what you need for top level engine health and performance management. If anything goes awry and you’ve configured the yellow/alerts and red/alerts for the engine parameters you’ll get a CAS message on the PFD and can flip over to the Engine page for additional data.

I’m still playing with configuration and failure modes so expect to come up with a few more useful items as I go.

Cheers,
Rick

[Pinecone]

Also, as I understand it, you can display your EIS info on an tablet running Garmin Pilot.

I am rethinking my plan to do Garmin EIS.  I currently have a JPI830 (upgraded from the 700) and may switch to a 900 instead of the Garmin.

[Rick Junkin]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

I currently have a JPI830 (upgraded from the 700) and may switch to a 900 instead of the Garmin.

@Pinecone  I had the same plan at one point, and on the Functional Check Flight last Friday following my panel replacement I was thinking I had made a mistake going Garmin EIS. But that’s changed over the course of just the last few days. I’m really liking the G3X EIS. Garmin does integration well, and the EIS is no exception. And now that I’ve cracked the nut on how to display TIT on the EIS strip I’m a very happy camper. Here are some of my observations to provide a bit of info for you to add to your EIS selection calculus.

I flew with an EDM830 in my Mooney and an EDM900 in  another airplane. I liked having all that data available on one small screen. And the “normalize” mode for the CHT and EGT bar graph was gold, making any temperature deviations immediately apparent. The certified G3X EIS doesn’t have that - YET. “Normalize” was incorporated into the last s/w release for the experimental G3X and if it follows the timeline of other G3X feature improvements we should see it in the certified software within the year.

What I’m finding I like more about the G3X EIS implementation over the JPI gear is the flexibility to set your own alerts and alarms exactly where you want them, which the EDMs also let you do to a point. But you can program multiple levels of alerts and alarms for each parameter on the G3X if you want to, and when triggered those alerts/alarms give an audible cue and also a discrete visual cue in the form of a CAS message on the PFD. For me that means I don’t need to have every parameter visible because the system is monitoring what I’m not displaying and will tell me when something exceeds a limit I’ve set. It’s a different mindset for sure, but it allows my brain to process less data visually and concern myself only with the “big rock” parameters on the EIS strip while the computer monitors the details of individual EGT/CHT temps and the electrical system. If something acts up I get a tone and a PFD CAS message and it’s a quick touch on the EIS strip to bring up the engine page for analysis and troubleshooting.

One of my other reasons for originally wanting an EDM900 was the eggs in one basket concern of everything relying on the G3X PFD. That was mitigated when I decided to add a 7” G3X MFD on the copilot side. Opinions vary on the usefulness of an MFD on the right panel but I’m finding it a plus. But then I have a GTN650xi rather than a 750xi so the MFD screen is more useful to me. Without the MFD I would be more inclined to go with a separate engine display, but I would likely go with a GI275 EIS now that I have a better understanding of the power of the Garmin EIS/PFD integration. Plus I understand the Garmin EIS is more data-rich than the JPI if that appeals to you. Something to look at if you aren’t completely sold on the JPI gear.

Cheers,
Rick

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks for the input.   I will have to ponder on this.  But at first reading, I will probably stick with the Garmin EIS.

My plan is a dock for the AERA 760 on the right side.   That gives me a completely independent display (battery, GPS, AHARS) over there.

[Marc_B]

G500TXi vs G3X, but I'm definitely in the camp that I like having the engine monitor data separate outside the primary display.  Of course 8MA followed @donkaye's lead and has the MVP-50.  I've flown behind the JPI as well as the MVP and I have to say that I like the format and readability of the MVP better.

In my mind, the reason to have the EIS data embedded in the primary display would be if you have space constraint.  Of course with the evolution of the Garmin connected cockpit we may find that they only report engine and fuel data if you use Garmin's EIS.

@Pinecone I went with the Aera on the yoke and use routinely going back and forth with terrain & weather en route, traffic in and out of the pattern, XM music channel/mute, and approach plates.  Very convenient to have these at my fingertips.

[PT20J]

21 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

I finally figured out how to get TIT displayed on the EIS strip on the PFD. I probably could have called Garmin to get the answer but I had some fun finding it on my own.

Sounds like it should have been configured this way during installation. The STC requires that any factory gauge with a limitation be displayed on the PFD strip. 

And, in my experience, Garmin will refuse to answer any configuration mode questions and refer you to a dealer. So congratulations for figuring it out.

[Ragsf15e]

The integration is nice. All the boxes sharing all the info.  If you split garmin/jpi you have to be really careful about what is shared and how.  Different setup, but I have a jpi930 with dual g5s.  In order to get a TAS display I need to add Garmin’s temp probe even though I have a temp probe for the jpi and it shares the data as far as my gps (430w).  A fully integrated system has definite benefits.  Know what your getting.

[Rick Junkin]

4 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Sounds like it should have been configured this way during installation.

Agreed. I believe this was a "miss" as it was configured as an NA engine would be.

All of that studying of the installation manual and YouTube videos from Midwest Panel Builders, as well as the threads here on MS, are paying off!

Cheers,
Rick

[Rick Junkin]

27 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Sounds like it should have been configured this way during installation. The STC requires that any factory gauge with a limitation be displayed on the PFD strip. 

And, in my experience, Garmin will refuse to answer any configuration mode questions and refer you to a dealer. So congratulations for figuring it out.

Going back to one of the original discussions in this thread, I don't know if the Garmin EIS will work for an airplane with more POH limit parameters like IAT and CDT. Unless there is a way to change the display format for MAP and RPM to something smaller, I don't think there is room for more parameters on the Main Engine Display (EIS strip). The experimental G3X has these options, but no telling if they will/can make it to the certified s/w. @Pinecone I would get a definite answer from Garmin or a Garmin dealer on this if your Encore has these parameters.

Cheers,
Rick

 

[Pinecone]

No IAT or CDT

 

[hubcap]

This is the configuration of my Garmin EIS Display

[Rick Junkin]

3 hours ago, hubcap said:

This is the configuration of my Garmin EIS Display

@hubcap Take a look at the excerpt from the STC installation manual Skip posted earlier. According to that, fuel pressure or fuel flow is required on the EIS strip for engines with fuel pumps. Did you find a way around that?

Cheers,
Rick

[hubcap]

This is the display when viewed during split screen, which does show fuel flow: 

If this is not a legal installation, I will have to address it with the avionics shop that performed the install.

 

[kortopates]

I don't recall the 231 having a fuel pressure gauge, just FF, so don't think Garmin could trump Mooney's requirements.

If you have an intercooler installed, it would make much more sense to display Induction Air Temp - which is the Induction air temp after the intercooler. CDT is after the turbo and before the intercooler.

[Pinecone]

My 252 has a fuel pressure gauge over on the right side.  It is placarded with take off fuel flow range.

Looking at the KOEL, it is not listed.

Engine instruments listed are Tachometer, Manifold Pressure, TIT, Fuel Quantity, Oil Temperature and Pressure, CHT, Ammeter/Voltmeter.

[Z W]

I believe the 231 had different required instrumentation than the 252.  At a minimum, it had a CDT gauge as required equipment, which the 252 engine does not use.  In our 262 conversion, this resulted in a requirement that CDT be displayed on the G500TXi, even though we don't have a functioning CDT gauge, according to the avionics shop.  I've always wondered if that's really a requirement, results in wasted space in the display for a gauge that just sits at zero.

From the 231 POH:

 

[kortopates]

5 hours ago, Z W said:

In our 262 conversion, this resulted in a requirement that CDT be displayed on the G500TXi, even though we don't have a functioning CDT gauge, according to the avionics shop.  I've always wondered if that's really a requirement, results in wasted space in the display for a gauge that just sits at zero.

Agreed, in reality its bogus but legally still stands unless the the Modworks 262 STC specifically updated the required engine instrumentation list (I don't know the answer but bet not). But all said, as mentioned previously its makes zero sense to put in a CDT probe on an engine with a aftercooler but does make good sense to put in a IAT probe as I have done on my 252. The same 280F limitation would apply to IAT but should be impossible to attain given the aftercooler. But keeping "CDT" is misinformation since even if CDT exceeded 280F its not the temperature of the induction air going to into the cylinders which is what the CDT limitation is for. You need to know what IAT is to know it you are exceeding 280F in the air going into the cylinders.

Lastly its even very possible, if not probable, that a converted 262 original CDT probe was just re-installed after the aftercooler on the MB engine where it belongs anyway in which case its no longer technically CDT but an IAT indication anyway. 

[81X]

I also had a JPI830 in my 231 and was hesitant to have everything in multiple screens with using my G3X EIS.   After flying with it for about 150 hours, I can’t say I miss it at all especially with the configurable alerts.  
 

Also, being able to stream and view all the engine data simultaneously on Garmin Pilot and then view it after the flight is exceptionally useful, especially when diagnosing issues. 

[Pinecone]

A question, the Garmin EIS on a G3X does have the fuel required to destination and fuel remaining at destination like the JPIs?

[Mooney in Oz]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:10 AM, Pinecone said:

A question, the Garmin EIS on a G3X does have the fuel required to destination and fuel remaining at destination like the JPIs?

I can’t recall seeing a fuel required to destination figure, however there is a fuel over destination (FOD) and fuel remaining (REM) figure that you can both customise into the data field bar across the top of the G3X. You can also display endurance (EDR) and other fuel info of your choice.

If you simply subtract the FOD from the REM you will easily have the fuel required to destination figure.

IMHO the FOD figure is what I consider to be most important.

[Pinecone]

Yeah, that will work.  Thanks.