Any guidance on fasting while flying?

[DanM20C]

54 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

My wife on the other hand gets hangry if you don’t feed her on time. I think we are all different on how it affects us.

My wife often justifies a bed time snack because she doesn’t want to wake up hungry in the middle of the night. 
 

I started intermittent fasting just over a year ago. Either one meal a day or 20/4.  It’s been nothing but positive, I wish I figured this out years ago.  
 

cheers,

Dan

[carusoam]

Let’s see...

1) Guess we can’t ask why anyone would want to to do this... we eat fish on Friday and go flying...

2) Somebody did point out that being poorly nourished works against your performance...

3) Another suggested... If you are a bear, you ate all fall getting ready for the long winter...

4) The guys that control their weight at the gym... eat several small meals(?) each day...  if they took a day off from eating there is no fat to draw from...

5) Nothing less comfortable than not eating, and being in a cold environment... and not being able to generate body heat...

6) If this were important legally, somebody would have mentioned a rule about it....

7) Review the IMSAFE list... see if it gets touched there...

8) I don’t go flying without a plan for eating, drinking, and using the empty Gatorade bottle...

9) going hypoglycemic while flying because you didn’t want to eat, may not be the best idea...

10) Kind of like running out of O2... everyone has different personal signs... your kids may describe being Hangry....

 

PP summary only... everyone has to live their lives... go T-bone!  

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

12 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If you are worried about fasting, take some food with you, if you start to feel bad, break the fast and have something to eat. Those GUE packs I used to down while doing marathons will boost your blood sugar in no time flat.

That’s actually what we were warned against, feel bad and eating a candy bar and a coke and you feel great, for awhile. It’s the crash after that, that’s worse than doing without.

As a kid I was Hypoglycemic, which actually is the opposite of a diabetic. A diabetic is naturally hyperglycemic, it’s the insulin that can make them go to low blood sugar levels, 

‘But it occurs naturally, especially in hyper active younger people. I out grew it.

‘Anyway I used to race my Husqvarna in Hare Scrambles, by the end of a race I could barely hold the bike up, my cure was a Coke and a Honey Bun, in 15 minutes I could do anything, but maybe an hour later the crash was bad. I didn’t know any better, and being a kid probably wouldn’t have listened anyway.

‘But carrying some real food along with you while flying if you have skipped a meal is a good idea. I’d suggest low fiber food.

I used to export aircraft from the US to Central America mostly and carried up to 14 hours of fuel, I was taught to carry Gatorade and Jerky, you can pee in an empty Gatorade  bottle, the other is harder to deal with.

Edited March 20, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s actually what we were warned against, feel bad and eating a candy bar and a coke and you feel great, for awhile. It’s the crash after that, that’s worse than doing without.

Sugar is good for quick energy, and you've already learned to avoid rapidly-falling blood sugar levels afterwards. If you've been fasting and feel bad / weak, eat a sandwich (they're easy to carry, and can have meat, dairy and grain for a solid foundation).

[aviatoreb]

12 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If you are worried about fasting, take some food with you, if you start to feel bad, break the fast and have something to eat. Those GUE packs I used to down while doing marathons will boost your blood sugar in no time flat.

When I was a student on in college and on the cycling team - gue packs were a new thing.  They are good for a situation which is out on a 3 or 4 hour bike ride and not stopping to eat is an entirely different metabolism situation than we are talking here.

Anyway I couldn't afford those gue packs other than the very few you would get as swag for free at a race.

Bananas are natures perfect grab and go food.  Better than gue.  lots of great vitamins and minerals in addition.  Right size for a quick bit. Easy to eat with one hand while riding hard.  Easy to chew while trying to breath. Easy to digest while active.  Generally good for you.  And comes its own natural packaging - biodegradable.  Just toss that banana wrapper into the woods as you role by.  Gue has nothing on a banana.

I used to experiment with other things.  I settled on boiled mini potatoes.   They are roughly the size of one bit, and equally easy to digest.  And super cheap for student athlete.  Fit nicely in back of shirt pocket.

[aviatoreb]

Getting hungry seems to be as much habit and practice.  If you eat a snack between breakfast and lunch every day (called second breakfasts in the Hobbit), then you crave it.  If you eat a cookie with your tea every day at 3pm (as they do in English universities at tea time), then you anticipate it socially as much as crave it as much as hunger pains if you miss it.

But that seems distinct from actually running out of energy.

[A64Pilot]

I did the cycling thing myself, Bananas are great also because they contain potassium and it’s needed apparently to regulate heart rate. I was a CB and still am, but I made my own food. I got the recipe from a bicycling magazine.

I used to ride a Cannondale, a cheap bike but other than the harsh ride from aluminum it was OK, later I got a Lightspeed Ultimate, which was a completely different bike, funny thing was I didn’t ride it as much

[N201MKTurbo]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

When I was a student on in college and on the cycling team - gue packs were a new thing.  They are good for a situation which is out on a 3 or 4 hour bike ride and not stopping to eat is an entirely different metabolism situation than we are talking here.

Anyway I couldn't afford those gue packs other than the very few you would get as swag for free at a race.

Bananas are natures perfect grab and go food.  Better than gue.  lots of great vitamins and minerals in addition.  Right size for a quick bit. Easy to eat with one hand while riding hard.  Easy to chew while trying to breath. Easy to digest while active.  Generally good for you.  And comes its own natural packaging - biodegradable.  Just toss that banana wrapper into the woods as you role by.  Gue has nothing on a banana.

I used to experiment with other things.  I settled on boiled mini potatoes.   They are roughly the size of one bit, and equally easy to digest.  And super cheap for student athlete.  Fit nicely in back of shirt pocket.

Yea, I agree. I never bought the GUE packs, but they were always giving them away at the races. The sag stops usually had bananas, but I was competitive back then and stopping at the sag stops was out of the question. A minute to eat a banana could knock you out of your catagory.

[N201MKTurbo]

26 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s actually what we were warned against, feel bad and eating a candy bar and a coke and you feel great, for awhile. It’s the crash after that, that’s worse than doing without.

As a kid I was Hypoglycemic, which actually is the opposite of a diabetic. A diabetic is naturally hyperglycemic, it’s the insulin that can make them go to low blood sugar levels, 

‘But it occurs naturally, especially in hyper active younger people. I out grew it.

‘Anyway I used to race my Husqvarna in Hare Scrambles, by the end of a race I could barely hold the bike up, my cure was a Coke and a Honey Bun, in 15 minutes I could do anything, but maybe an hour later the crash was bad. I didn’t know any better, and being a kid probably wouldn’t have listened anyway.

‘But carrying some real food along with you while flying if you have skipped a meal is a good idea. I’d suggest low fiber food.

I used to export aircraft from the US to Central America mostly and carried up to 14 hours of fuel, I was taught to carry Gatorade and Jerky, you can pee in an empty Gatorade  bottle, the other is harder to deal with.

Did you consider that you were crashing because of the exertion and not the Coke? Even these days, If I ride my bicycle for 30 or 40 miles, I’m on the couch for the rest of the day.

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Yea, I agree. I never bought the GUE packs, but they were always giving them away at the races. The sag stops usually had bananas, but I was competitive back then and stopping at the sag stops was out of the question. A minute to eat a banana could knock you out of your catagory.

BYOB - bring your own banana.

4 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Did you consider that you were crashing because of the exertion and not the Coke? Even these days, If I ride my bicycle for 30 or 40 miles, I’m on the couch for the rest of the day.

I was just remembering - when I was 21 or so - getting in shape meant go on a 2 3 or 4 hour ride every day for 2 or 3 weeks and then good to go I was fast.  Today, I need to get into shape first to think about getting into shape.  I.e., I can't just get up and go on a 2 hour ride.  I need to ease into it.  (or I injure something!) Even then I can't beat myself up day after day like I used to.  Instead I over train if I try and deep fatigue is the enemy of getting into shape.  Old days recovery just meant do it again tomorrow.  Today, as you said - rest of the day on the couch.

[Davidv]

I just installed flap gap seals but I think my rigging also needs work.

[aviatoreb]

17 minutes ago, Davidv said:

I just installed flap gap seals but I think my rigging also needs work.

Rigging does nothing for your energy level but camguard is an excellent appetite suppressant.  I like a little camguard on a slice of whole wheat toast.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Did you consider that you were crashing because of the exertion and not the Coke? Even these days, If I ride my bicycle for 30 or 40 miles, I’m on the couch for the rest of the day.

No, I was dead on my feet, could barely walk blood sugar was so low, Hare Scrambles is a much longer event than Motor-X.

‘Anyway the Coke and Honey Bun spiked sugar levels, it was like speed, I felt good, but sugar gets into the bloodstream fast and is burnt fast too, so my sugar levels would crash soon after, but I think they may have been lower than to begin with.

Sugar is great for a burst of energy, thst sprint to the finish line for instance, but not so good for long term energy, it’s like N20 for an engine 

[GeeBee]

Know the feeling. When I was flying corporate, I flew some folks from Tahoe to Vegas to see a fight. We were not scheduled to depart to Tahoe until 2 am. For whatever reason only a Jolt cola (twice the sugar, 3x the caffeine) in the vending machine at Hughes, so I drank one. Bad mistake. Wired for hours and the down which thankfully occurred after landing was not pretty.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

37 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

No, I was dead on my feet, could barely walk blood sugar was so low, Hare Scrambles is a much longer event than Motor-X.

‘Anyway the Coke and Honey Bun spiked sugar levels, it was like speed, I felt good, but sugar gets into the bloodstream fast and is burnt fast too, so my sugar levels would crash soon after, but I think they may have been lower than to begin with.

Sugar is great for a burst of energy, thst sprint to the finish line for instance, but not so good for long term energy, it’s like N20 for an engine 

Most people don't think riding a dirt bike is athletic. They are wrong! When I worked in Tucson, there were two guys who rode in the Baja 500. They would train after work and I would ride with them quite often. There is state trust land between Tangerene Rd and Marana along some power lines where it is legal to ride. It is about a 20 mile round trip. It is nothing but whoops with washes running across the trail. The only time it was smooth was when you were airborne over the washes. Their bikes were set up with high handlebars so they could straight leg it and let the suspension handle the bumps. This is how they rode the race. They would ride 70 mile legs, they had 3 man teams and each would ride 3 legs. On the training rides I had to stop every 5 miles or so and catch my breath. It was a tremendous workout.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Most people don't think riding a dirt bike is athletic. They are wrong! When I worked in Tucson, there were two guys who rode in the Baja 500. They would train after work and I would ride with them quite often. There is state trust land between Tangerene Rd and Marana along some power lines where it is legal to ride. It is about a 20 mile round trip. It is nothing but whoops with washes running across the trail. The only time it was smooth was when you were airborne over the washes. Their bikes were set up with high handlebars so they could straight leg it and let the suspension handle the bumps. This is how they rode the race. They would ride 70 mile legs, they had 3 man teams and each would ride 3 legs. On the training rides I had to stop every 5 miles or so and catch my breath. It was a tremendous workout.

FWIW, if you get off that road a bit it will take you to a rock formation at the western end of the Tortalitas, that I'm almost certain is where the shootout at the end of the movie Winchester 73 was filmed!

[Davidv]

21 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Rigging does nothing for your energy level but camguard is an excellent appetite suppressant.  I like a little camguard on a slice of whole wheat toast.

This actually works out perfect with my new “Gatorade” bottle (see @carusoam #8) I found in Don Maxwell’s hangar last week:

 

[mike_elliott]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:42 AM, A64Pilot said:

Bananas are great also because they contain potassium and it’s needed apparently to regulate heart rate

and they taste the same going down as they do coming up

[aviatoreb]

On 3/20/2021 at 9:42 AM, A64Pilot said:

I did the cycling thing myself, Bananas are great also because they contain potassium and it’s needed apparently to regulate heart rate. I was a CB and still am, but I made my own food. I got the recipe from a bicycling magazine.

I used to ride a Cannondale, a cheap bike but other than the harsh ride from aluminum it was OK, later I got a Lightspeed Ultimate, which was a completely different bike, funny thing was I didn’t ride it as much

Bananas are the perfect athletic food since you don't need to prepare them, wrap them, or anything.  They come with their own wrapper and they are ready to go, readily available, very healthy, and very inexpensive.  Actually - I used to hate the taste and avoided them like the plague when I was a kid.  When I became a bike nut in college my CB side overcame that and I ate them out of utility, and I learned to like them which I very much do now.

I used to have an early Cannondale road bike which was a very very harsh ride.  As a race I kept crashing and trashing my nice bike and them I would transfer the components over to the trusty Canonndale frame which I would ride and race until I good afford another nicer frame - which I would promptly wreck again, and then repeat... over and over.  That Cannondale never crashed and always carried me to the line - it had special magic juju dust or something.  I should have just given up on buying "nicer" bikes.

[jaylw314]

On 3/19/2021 at 6:51 PM, RobertGary1 said:

Fair point. But I was really looking to see if the FAA has provided any guidance on fasting and flying since a lot of people do it. 

No, but if I worked for the FAA I'd probably say something like "whether you get hangry from not eating or crash after eating, knowing how your body reacts to food (or the lack of it) should be part of the P in your PAVE checklist)."

Think they'll hire me?

[jaylw314]

38 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Bananas are the perfect athletic food since you don't need to prepare them, wrap them, or anything.  They come with their own wrapper and they are ready to go, readily available, very healthy, and very inexpensive.  Actually - I used to hate the taste and avoided them like the plague when I was a kid.  When I became a bike nut in college my CB side overcame that and I ate them out of utility, and I learned to like them which I very much do now.

OT warning!

Sadly, yellow Cavendish bananas are monoclonal and under threat from disease with some expecting it to be wiped out like the Gros Michel banana 60 years ago.   

https://time.com/5730790/banana-panama-disease/

Perhaps the bright side to this is that it might produce economic pressure to cultivate some of the other varieties of bananas still remaining (even perhaps the Gros Michel).   They're out there still, but they're never sold because they're harder to transport and can't compete with the Cavendish industry, but when I tried a couple local varieties on trips to Central America, damn are they good in comparison! 

Has anyone actually ever had the Gros Michel?  It was supposed to be far superior in taste compared to the Cavendish.  

OT sidebar over

 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

OT warning!

Sadly, yellow Cavendish bananas are monoclonal and under threat from disease with some expecting it to be wiped out like the Gros Michel banana 60 years ago.   

https://time.com/5730790/banana-panama-disease/

Perhaps the bright side to this is that it might produce economic pressure to cultivate some of the other varieties of bananas still remaining (even perhaps the Gros Michel).   They're out there still, but they're never sold because they're harder to transport and can't compete with the Cavendish industry, but when I tried a couple local varieties on trips to Central America, damn are they good in comparison! 

Has anyone actually ever had the Gros Michel?  It was supposed to be far superior in taste compared to the Cavendish.  

OT sidebar over

 

I may have - I had a business trip to Brazil about 10 years ago - and the hotel - actually a resort - had an elaborate brunch-buffet every day.  They had many fruits I had never seen before and I tried many and they were very interesting and some fantastic and fresh.  They had what seemed like a dozen different kinds of bananas I had never seen before.  Some big some small but clearly different kinds of varieties.  And very fresh - local.

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

No, but if I worked for the FAA I'd probably say something like "whether you get hangry from not eating or crash after eating, knowing how your body reacts to food (or the lack of it) should be part of the P in your PAVE checklist)."

Think they'll hire me?

Ultimately that is the concern. Perceiving your own health is difficult to do quantitatively . Much like detecting the effects of CO poisoning. 
 

Ive fasted long enough that I don’t worry about losing energy ( actually much higher energy than after a meal). 

Edited March 21, 2021 by RobertGary1

[carusoam]

I keep seeing the word ‘fast’, and I’m naturally drawn into the conversation...  

Only to realize I’m hungry for something else...

Like... why would somebody want to fast, while going fast?

Then I’m left starving for more...

1) Is it a religious limitation... fasting is part of some holidays.

2) Is it a health related limitation... can’t eat prior to having some tests done.

3) Is it an astronaut limitation... you have one flight suit, and you’re strapped in the chair. 
 

Food for thought...

If you supply some background to your situation... some like minded people may step forward into the discussion...

 

Wow, that was tiring to write... I need a snack break...

 

I’ll be back,

-a-

 

[Shadrach]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:34 PM, RobertGary1 said:

Maybe that’s the difference between fasting and just skipping a meal. I feel great while fasting. It’s why I like fasting. I dislike flying with a gut bomb after a meal. 

Probably the wrong forum...people not versed in fasting don't understand that once the body has adapted to eating itself, low blood sugar is a non issue.  Even a thin person has in excess of a 100,000 spare calories on board. Humans are quite capable of going long periods without food and performing quite well.  I too have enjoyed fasting over the years. I've gone as long as 5 days with no calories.  It feels quite good once over the ketosis hump.  I find fasting easier if I eliminate carbs from my diet the week before.  Once acclimated, it's amazing how well the body works.  I did a 22 mile road bike ride 4 days in on my last fast.  That's not a big ride but it's enough to notice that there was very little change in my energy level through out the ride.  As much as I love it, I feel far more off my A game after a big plate of pasta than I ever have during a fast.