Is Mooney corp still a thing?

[Missile=Awesome]

mooney.com

Is that a thing?

Can you go there and find a phone and address for a service center?

Can you obtain technical information?

Can you find model specific information?

Who knew?

Why keep up with change?

Just ask a question?

Just ask a question.

[Guest]

Of the 3 brands I operate a service centre for, Mooney is the only one to remove the discount structure from us. I’m not sure if that means that anyone can buy directly from the factory.

Clarence

[mike_elliott]

12 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I guess that means that you or your A&P can buy a part from Mooney direct (if any are available!) at the same price as they sell to your traditional MSC or Lasar or anyone else

I dont believe anyone can buy a part from Mooney. Mooney sells only to authorized service centers and they only have one price list. It is up to the Service center to put their markup on it as they see fit. I dont believe they publish the Mooney Service center price list either.

If any of this has changed or will change, I am sure Clarence, Paul Maxwell or Jonny will correct me with authority, not speculation.

[Davidv]

@mike_elliott is correct, the parts are sold to the service center and the service center then sells them to owners.  Individuals are not able to buy from Mooney directly.

[RobertGary1]

38 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

.

If Mooney only sells parts through MSC then the "discount" was an illusion because no one was paying "full price".  The price is the price and now they are all higher.  I get it - Mooney hasn't been covering their costs.  Since they haven't gone through bankruptcy this time they can't back out of or restructure all their current obligations and fixed costs. 

It’s pretty common to have an MSRP even when the manufacture doesn’t sell retail. 
 

-Robert 

[Missile=Awesome]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Of the 3 brands I operate a service centre for, Mooney is the only one to remove the discount structure from us. I’m not sure if that means that anyone can buy directly from the factory.

Clarence

What are “common” Mooney specific parts that you are installing on aircraft you service?  I ask this because plane just came through annual and did require parts, but they were ALL firewall forward with exception of plexi floor gear position indicator.  This part was reasonable as purchased from Mooney Service Center.  Without doing refurbishment/interiors it would seem difficult to “make a go of it” selling exclusively Mooney parts (based on my experience with service) for two Mooney airframes owned for last 20+ years.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

OK fair enough.  Then whatever the discount was, which is gone, then Mooney has pushed through an across the board price increase on parts.  If MSC's were getting a 20% discount previously, which is now gone, then Mooney has increased all parts prices 25%.  That becomes the new higher base upon which the MSC's will mark-up prices. For example, if a part had an MSRP of $1,000 and the MSC got a 20% discount previously then the bought it at $800.   The new price for the MSC will cost them $200 more which is a 25% increase over the past.  Whatever the discount was you can do the math.  I can't find any references online to historical parts price discounts for factory authorized general aviation service centers (Mooney, Cessna, Beech, Piper or Cirrus) but I bet they were material.

If Mooney only sells parts through MSC then the "discount" was an illusion because no one was paying "full price".  The price is the price and now they are all higher.  I get it - Mooney hasn't been covering their costs.  Since they haven't gone through bankruptcy this time they can't back out of or restructure all their current obligations and fixed costs. 

Mooney hasnt discounted prices for parts to the MSC's for at least 3 years that I know of. They dont publish a MSRP and havent for some time that I know of. They simply sell to the MSC's for their current price. Its their right to do this. I am not so sure of your accuracy when you state this 

Then whatever the discount was, which is gone, then Mooney has pushed through an across the board price increase on parts.  If MSC's were getting a 20% discount previously, which is now gone, then Mooney has increased all parts prices 25%

 Are you aware of them having a MSRP and discount off list in the past when Mejeing group bought the company? I am not. Do you have any knowledge of them selling directly or discounting to anyone previously that I might be unaware of?

 

[Guest]

When you guys take a dump on your maintainer, as so many do with your stories of being ripped off in some fashion, please realize that the pricing structure has changed dramatically over the last few years.  I call it the Aircraft Spruce effect, "same price for everyone"  My discount from Spruce is lucky to break 10% on a few small range of parts, and even less on the rest. To top it off they give the same account status to anyone with a pulse, then some of you share that among yourselves!

It's little wonder there are so few of us left in the GA market place.

Both Cirrus and Diamond, my other 2 service centres offer me a discount below MSPR, by  contract we can not sell above that price.

If we take the fictitious $1000 part, it costs me upwards of $100 by the time Fed Ex and Customs are finished, so if I sell it to you for MSRP , I've subsidized your hobby to the tune of $100.  Not a very successful business model.  

Clarence 

[Davidv]

Just now, M20Doc said:

When you guys take a dump on your maintainer, as so many do with your stories of being ripped off in some fashion, please realize that the pricing structure has changed dramatically over the last few years.  I call it the Aircraft Spruce effect, "same price for everyone"  My discount from Spruce is lucky to break 10% on a few small range of parts, and even less on the rest. To top it off they give the same account status to anyone with a pulse, then some of you share that among yourselves!

It's little wonder there are so few of us left in the GA market place.

Both Cirrus and Diamond, my other 2 service centres offer me a discount below MSPR, by  contract we can not sell above that price.

If we take the fictitious $1000 part, it costs me upwards of $100 by the time Fed Ex and Customs are finished, so if I sell it to you for MSRP , I've subsidized your hobby to the tune of $100.  Not a very successful business model.  

Clarence 

Thanks for the clarification @M20Doc.  If I hear what you're saying correctly, Cirrus and Diamond are essentially fixing your margins and your ability to make a profit from those parts you sell?  While Mooney does not provide MSRP, you are free to add a reasonable markup to the parts you buy from Mooney as you see fit.   

[RobertGary1]

12 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

When you guys take a dump on your maintainer, as so many do with your stories of being ripped off in some fashion, please realize that the pricing structure has changed dramatically over the last few years.

That surprises me. I wouldn't expect a car mechanic to charge me the same price for a part as I could get on Amazon. At least in the US its pretty standard for shops to take a markup on parts plus labor.

 

-Robert

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Thanks for the clarification @M20Doc.  If I hear what you're saying correctly, Cirrus and Diamond are essentially fixing your margins and your ability to make a profit from those parts you sell?  While Mooney does not provide MSRP, you are free to add a reasonable markup to the parts you buy from Mooney as you see fit.   

There is an MSRP on Mooney parts, in the absence of a discount we add a margin like any business should.  
 

Clarence

[mike_elliott]

26 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

There is an MSRP on Mooney parts, in the absence of a discount we add a margin like any business should.  
 

Clarence

Clarence is this price list available to the "public" and if so, could we get it so we can decide how much of our money is your fair share

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

Clarence is this price list available to the "public" and if so, could we get it so we can decide how much of our money is your fair share

Mike,

No need to publish the list.  When ever this subject has come up in the past, I’ve always challenged people to say what margin is fair for their shop to charge, and if the rolls were reversed, could they get by on the same margin.
 

So far no takers,

Clarence

[RobertGary1]

21 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Mike,

No need to publish the list.  When ever this subject has come up in the past, I’ve always challenged people to say what margin is fair for their shop to charge, and if the rolls were reversed, could they get by on the same margin.
 

So far no takers,

Clarence

As a CFI I often hear students say that FBO's screw them by charging Hobbs vs tach, etc. I like to point out I've never met someone who's gotten rich renting airplanes.

-Robert

 

[Davidv]

58 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

There is an MSRP on Mooney parts, in the absence of a discount we add a margin like any business should.  
 

Clarence

It's hard to believe that people would have an objection to you adding a margin to a purchased part but I guess there are a lot of crazies out there.  I also wouldn't expect to pay the same price for the same part at every MSC because each MSC has it's own expenses that can vary significantly based on many variables (rent, local labor rates, utilities, ect...).

Edited October 27, 2020 by Davidv

[ArtVandelay]

My shop is not a MSC, but he prefers me to order the parts. So he doesn’t have to float the cost.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

It's hard to believe that people would have an objection to you adding a margin to a purchased part but I guess there are a lot of crazies out there.  I also wouldn't expect to pay the same price for the same part at every MSC because each MSC has it's own expenses that can vary significantly based on many variables (rent, local labor rates, utilities, ect...).

It’s not my customer based, I mark up my parts to be profitable and to be here next year.  
 

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

It’s not my customer based, I mark up my parts to be profitable and to be here next year.  
 
Clarence

Why not just charge a labor rate that will allow you to be profitable?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Why not just charge a labor rate that will allow you to be profitable?

Where did I say I wasn’t?  The point I’m trying to make is that so many people here dump on their maintainer who is ripping them off in some fashion.  I’m giving people a perspective on parts pricing. 

Clarence

[GeeBee]

Looking at it from a shop's perspective, they order the part, they pay for the part, but they don't get paid until. the airplane is released to the owner. If they have the part in stock it may have been there a while. In any event, most the time airplanes are in the shop several weeks to a month if it is serious work. Credit card companies on average get 18 to 24 percent or more on unpaid balances, yet a shop is expected to carry parts costs for a month? Seems to me, 20% mark up is about right for carrying costs.

My IA is a one man shop. Because of that, I always pay him in advance for parts ordered and if the airplane is there over two weeks, I give him a progress payment on his labor.  Most small shops do not have the working capital to carry a large job long. 

 

[slowflyin]

13 hours ago, Davidv said:

It's hard to believe that people would have an objection to you adding a margin to a purchased part but I guess there are a lot of crazies out there.  I also wouldn't expect to pay the same price for the same part at every MSC because each MSC has it's own expenses that can vary significantly based on many variables (rent, local labor rates, utilities, ect...).

Unfortunately in this information age fewer and fewer folks understand the value of the business owner.    For example, the local sporting goods store is vanishing.  Along with it goes the expertise, gunsmith and other accoutrements.   Customers come in, hold guns, examine guns, talk about guns.... then whisper to there buddy that it's 20 bucks  cheaper at a box store an hour and a half away.  But when they need that small item or something fixed they complain about not having local support.   Opening day tomorrow and the dog ate my hunter orange vest........   In the end the owner is not making money on big ticket items so he's forced to mark up everything else.   Next thing you know, "man this box of shells is crazy expensive, this guys screwing me".  

Same with local hardware.   Where I live; drive over an hour both ways to save money at Lowes buying all the lumber for a new deck.  Short two boards, buy local.   Need a hose for the washing machine, guts for the toilet, or advice on how to fix something, shop local.    

How about going in a brick and mortar shop to try on a new jacket and then buying it online because it's cheaper.   I actually see folks pulling up pricing via the trusty smartphone while wearing a piece of inventory and standing in front of a paid sales person.

Rant Over, thanks for listening.

[Danb]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Where did I say I wasn’t?  The point I’m trying to make is that so many people here dump on their maintainer who is ripping them off in some fashion.  I’m giving people a perspective on parts pricing. 

Clarence

This is unbelievable that aircraft owners expect there parts at cost, it’s a notion many people who are not in business for themselves are clueless in regard to the amount of overhead that needs to be covered to keep the business operating. I recently had a conversation with a union electrician, a friend, who couldn’t believe he had to supplement his health insurance by chipping in $25 a month. Totally clueless that health care is a major huge expense to the owner, upwards of $1000-$1500 a month depending on coverage. I had to talk one of my clients to raise his hourly rate plus his markup on parts, he is a Aircraft maintenance facility with 5 employees. I would go out on a limb saying Clarence is making considerable less than a high majority of aircraft owners. This thread depicts the complete ignorance many people have regarding the costs to own and operate a business just to the break even point.

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Looking at it from a shop's perspective, they order the part, they pay for the part, but they don't get paid until. the airplane is released to the owner. If they have the part in stock it may have been there a while. In any event, most the time airplanes are in the shop several weeks to a month if it is serious work. Credit card companies on average get 18 to 24 percent or more on unpaid balances, yet a shop is expected to carry parts costs for a month? Seems to me, 20% mark up is about right for carrying costs.

My IA is a one man shop. Because of that, I always pay him in advance for parts ordered and if the airplane is there over two weeks, I give him a progress payment on his labor.  Most small shops do not have the working capital to carry a large job long. 

 

This is how my previous IA did things. He'd buy parts, do the work and I would eventually receive an invoice and promptly pay it.

My new IA actually asks me to order the parts, unless they are something simple and common. Either approach works for me, as long as the IA is happy. 

[jlunseth]

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Where did I say I wasn’t?  The point I’m trying to make is that so many people here dump on their maintainer who is ripping them off in some fashion.  I’m giving people a perspective on parts pricing. 

Clarence

I am not a mechanic nor remotely in that business but I am on your side Clarence. Mechanics have precious little control over parts costs, that is driven by the parts supplier. There are some parts where pricing is competitive, there is more than one supplier, but an awful lot of parts where pricing is not competitive. The mechanics I have dealt with have been pretty good about keeping parts prices down within their ability to do so. My issue with mechanics is completely different. I have had several episodes where they let me fly off in an aircraft where the work was bad, a part was left out, or something wasn’t fastened down properly, or a problem was noticed but not called to my attention. I like flying, so much so that I want to live to fly again. So I take offense when I am left with a problem that becomes an in-air emergency that I have to deal with. I keep the mechanics that don’t try to kill me, I pay all their bills right away, if they are slow to get a bill out I call them up and say send me the bill so I can pay you. It took me several years of flying to figure out who was safe and who was not so safe. Good mechanics are a treasure to keep and hold.

Edited October 28, 2020 by jlunseth

[Tim Jodice]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Why not just charge a labor rate that will allow you to be profitable?

Most service providers, plumber, electrician, car mechanic, boat mechanic etc markup parts. That has been the way I have always experienced it. 

If a company loaded it all on labor most people couldn't understand how that works thinking they are being overcharged on labor while not noticing the low parts cost.

Bring your own parts? That works ok until there is a problem and it is very likely to become a finger pointing event. The owner is unhappy and the shop lost money. 

Obviously there are exceptions like if it is unavailable and falls under the owner produced part. 

As a automotive repair shop owner I won't accept people bringing there own parts. I provide a 2y/24k warranty because i have complete control of the repair and if there is a problem it is all on me. 

It is a half joke in the industry when someone asks you what your labor rate is and you say, what would you like it to be. I can charge you $50 an hour and have it done for the end of today or 150$ and have it done by lunch time today. Either way the repair is going to cost you $285 out the door.