Electroair EA-15000 Ignition switch

[NotarPilot]

I’m scheduled to have a full panel upgrade in a few months and considering installing the Electroair Ignition switch in place of the turn key ignition switch. This is similar to a system I’ve seen in late model Piper Warriors and Archers.  One of my concerns is the lack of a key needed to start the engine and the potential facilitation of aircraft theft this could create. This can be mitigated by other security features like a prop lock, aileron lock, etc, as we know the door lock could be easily picked. 

Any opinions about this product? Anyone have it? 

[aviatoreb]

Do it!  I had it added a few weeks after I did the surefly.  It makes mag check much more natural / no skip that other wise happens a key and an electronic mag.

plus its tons of fun to press the red button startup!

[EricJ]

If somebody wants to steal your airplane, the ignition key is not that big of a barrier to stopping them.   The difference between stealing it with this device or the usual bendix ignition key is probably a couple of minutes for somebody familiar with airplanes.   I think EA device is free from the AD as well, and probably less likely to strand you due to a failure.

I've been thinking of putting one of these in for a while, but haven't done it yet.  If a rotary switch fails, I think replacing it with one of these is the better path, personally, imho.

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by EricJ

[Niko182]

30 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

I’m scheduled to have a full panel upgrade in a few months and considering installing the Electroair Ignition switch in place of the turn key ignition switch. This is similar to a system I’ve seen in late model Piper Warriors and Archers.  One of my concerns is the lack of a key needed to start the engine and the potential facilitation of aircraft theft this could create. This can be mitigated by other security features like a prop lock, aileron lock, etc, as we know the door lock could be easily picked. 

Any opinions about this product? Anyone have it? 

I added it for the idea Iwas gonna install surefly or EA. I like it. Im pretty sure I had it when you checked out the Eagle. Overall I really like it, I just need to remember to switch it off everytime. There have been a couple times where I forgot to turn it off, so I added it to my Shutdown checklist.

[EricJ]

I suppose one downside, for people like me who leave the keys on the glareshield, is that you could no longer verify the mags weren't turned on by the seeing the key on the glareshield.

 

[NotarPilot]

Thanks for the responses. I’m going to get it.

[McMooney]

I wanted this, just wouldn't fit in my panel 8(.  

 

[aviatoreb]

34 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I suppose one downside, for people like me who leave the keys on the glareshield, is that you could no longer verify the mags weren't turned on by the seeing the key on the glareshield.

 

That is a good point.  A very good point.  It is MUCH more important to remember to check the mag switches are not live early and often.

Case in point, the shop across the field that installed my electro air switch panel did a run up as they should - and the pilot who did the run up (on the ground) for the mechanics is a CFI who....when I got into the plane I noticed he left the mag switches on the on position.  Oops.

Just don't ever touch a prop if you have-not confirmed the mags are not live.  With keys they should be in your hand or on the glare shield.  Now with switches I need to take a peek into the cockpit.

[Niko182]

As stated it is really nice and looks clean, but it us so easy to forget to turn it off. I hate to say, even with the checklist, I have forgoten to turn it off.

However when I grab the tow bar to push the plane, I always check the switch again before touching the prop to make sure theyre off.

[carusoam]

It may be possible to put a white dot... on the part of the switch that his hidden when in the on position...

This will aid in a couple of visibility, being the most important...

If you can’t see the white dot, it is on...  

 

Surprising that the switch company didn’t use a multicolor switch cap for that...

For serious lock out, I like the visible lock around the prop...

My usual fear of things failing in flight... not having a key switch makes me feel better... less complex and hidden wear to cause failure...  call it the GM ignition switch effect...
 

This idea comes from several other on off switches that look similar to the one pictured above...

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, carusoam said:

It may be possible to put a white dot... on the part of the switch that his hidden when in the on position...

This will aid in a couple of visibility, being the most important...

If you can’t see the white dot, it is on...  

 

Surprising that the switch company didn’t use a multicolor switch cap for that...

For serious lock out, I like the visible lock around the prop...

My usual fear of things failing in flight... not having a key switch makes me feel better... less complex and hidden wear to cause failure...  call it the GM ignition switch effect...
 

This idea comes from several other on off switches that look similar to the one pictured above...

Best regards,

-a-

I don't feel the main problem is not being able to see if it is on or off.  I think more so the problem would be simply forgetting to check.

As for failure in flight. well its two switches now and I suppose if one were to fail you still have the other - unlike a rotary switch.

[jamesm]

I have installed  ElectroAir Switch panel a long with SureFly magneto on the Left side.  A couple things that bother me about the ElectroAir Start switch panel. Electroair didn't make the start (button) on the switch panel a   guarded switch. It has potential of someone inadvertently hitting the button. I pull my  ignition CB to ensure safety while on ground.  Though mine is mounted in a way it very unlikely button and switches  could be manipulated it is always on back of my mind. It's red button little kids and big kids  a like have curiosities and nothing draws their  attention like  red button  especially followed by the verbal  words of "DO NO PUSH" the red button.

The other things it very easy to forget to turn on (unground) the right mag after start.  Luckily  the EI  CGR30P Engine monitor has annunciation telling me  which Mag is grounded or both are ungrounded.

Yes I have added to the starting and switch sequence to my check list but it is  even easier to over look mag switch position than the Bendix Key installation.  Plus they are real expensive for what you get. I guess you can say you now have  one less AD note to worry about  at annual time. However Bendix AD note is very easy to comply with.

 

 

 

James '67C

 

 

 

 

 

[kmyfm20s]

6 minutes ago, jamesm said:

I have installed  ElectroAir Switch panel a long with SureFly magneto on the Left side.  A couple things that bother me about the ElectroAir Start switch panel. Electroair didn't make the start (button) on the switch panel a   guarded switch. It has potential of someone inadvertently hitting the button. I pull my  ignition CB to ensure safety while on ground.  Though mine is mounted in a way it very unlikely button and switches  could be manipulated it is always on back of my mind. It's red button little kids and big kids  a like have curiosities and nothing draws their  attention like  red button  especially followed by the verbal  words of "DO NO PUSH" the red button.

The other things it very easy to forget to turn on (unground) the right mag after start.  Luckily  the EI  CGR30P Engine monitor has annunciation telling me  which Mag is grounded or both are ungrounded.

Yes I have added to the starting and switch sequence to my check list but it is  even easier to over look mag switch position than the Bendix Key installation.  Plus they are real expensive for what you get. I guess you can say you now have  one less AD note to worry about  at annual time. However Bendix AD note is very easy to comply with.

 

 

 

James '67C

 

 

 

 

 

I like your reasoning! I could see myself accidentally pushing the starter button on a mag check and blowing out a starting coupler or worse shear off some gears(Continental). I’m fine with the interruption when I switch between the mag and the SF now that I know exactly what to expect. 

[kortopates]

7 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

I like your reasoning! I could see myself accidentally pushing the starter button on a mag check and blowing out a starting coupler or worse shear off some gears(Continental). I’m fine with the interruption when I switch between the mag and the SF now that I know exactly what to expect. 

Surefly also has a firmware fix in the midst to greatly reduce the re-boot time when switching mags to fix this. The only downside is that it won't be field upgradeable and you'll have to return your unit to them when its available. But I think the other issue you had with the voltage regulation has been their priority, so perhaps this firmware update isn't long off now.

[47U]

5 hours ago, McMooney said:

I wanted this, just wouldn't fit in my panel 8(.  

 

3 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

A couple things that bother me about the ElectroAir Start switch panel. Electroair didn't make the start (button) on the switch panel a   guarded switch. It has potential of someone inadvertently hitting the button.

After I replaced my left mag with the Surefly, I was also looking at the Electroair.  I couldn’t fit in my panel.  My avionics guy told me that lots of twins have the mags controlled by toggle switches.  The Citabria, too.  I did some searching online and read that toggle switch-controlled mags is common in the RV community.  I even found a paper with schematics.  Here’s my preferred solution.  All switches are Mil-Spec standard parts.  

Major alteration you say?  Talk to your A&P/IA.  I think this can be approved as a minor mod.  Schematically, it’s basically (key word) the same as manufactured. You’re just changing out one switch (with multiple functions) for a couple (approved) switches that perform the same functions.  There is no change to the operation (key word) of the powerplant.  If your mechanic is reluctant to sign if off on as minor mod, ask them if they will get it approved on a 337 with the local FSDO.  Probably cheaper than paying for the STC’d panel.  Two or three MS switches will run you well under .1 amu.  

As shown, it takes both switches to activate the starter.  I think that’s a big safety factor.  A separate starter button can be wired in quite easily, if desired.   A couple toggle switches takes up a whole lot less space than the Electroair panel.

 

[jamesm]

If you go that way you may consider using locking bat switches. the kind where you pull out slightly then up they lock in position until you pull out.  I would agree a lot less space better quality switches and cheaper installation. I wanted no question asked  people look at it  and  have the paperwork to back it up. So I went with electro air route since it has a STC  for it.

James '67C

[Bob - S50]

16 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I’m scheduled to have a full panel upgrade in a few months and considering installing the Electroair Ignition switch in place of the turn key ignition switch. This is similar to a system I’ve seen in late model Piper Warriors and Archers.  One of my concerns is the lack of a key needed to start the engine and the potential facilitation of aircraft theft this could create. This can be mitigated by other security features like a prop lock, aileron lock, etc, as we know the door lock could be easily picked. 

Any opinions about this product? Anyone have it? 

 

 

15 hours ago, EricJ said:

I suppose one downside, for people like me who leave the keys on the glareshield, is that you could no longer verify the mags weren't turned on by the seeing the key on the glareshield.

 

I don't know how hard it would be to get approval, but would it be possible to hook up a keyed switch and the Electroair ignition panel in series?  That is, you have to turn the key on the first switch for electrical power to reach the Electroair panel.

That would provide the key desired for security and also provide a key to place on the glareshield for safety.

Would that be a minor or major repair?

[47U]

5 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

I don't know how hard it would be to get approval, but would it be possible to hook up a keyed switch and the Electroair ignition panel in series?  That is, you have to turn the key on the first switch for electrical power to reach the Electroair panel.

That would provide the key desired for security and also provide a key to place on the glareshield for safety.

Would that be a minor or major repair?

If you can find a Mil Spec keyed switch, I’m in the minor mod camp.  I looked all over and didn’t find one.  A keyed switch would only defeat the starter, unless you found one with multiple poles that the P-leads are also wired through.  Even so, it’s not rocket science to unground a P-lead, keyed switch or not.  I’m not sure, is it even possible to hand-prop the injected and/or 6-cylinder airplanes?  

I decided that locking my cabin door would be sufficient, and strict adherence to the shut-down checklist to double check all three (left/right/master) switches are in the ‘down’ position.

If the thief wants your airplane, he’s going to take it.  My C probably isn’t going to be a target (maybe for parts?), but other’s here with a lower risk tolerance for theft is valid and understandable.  

[LANCECASPER]

Put the Medeco door and baggage locks on it with foil shades on the windows if it has to be left outside for any reason. They would most likely move on to the next airplane.

If they use a crowbar to get in it was probably for avionics rather than to steal the airplane.

[jamesm]

i have a CB collar  with strand a dental floss to keep the  collar near CB when in use then when I am done flying I pull the cb an put the the collar on the CB.

Not Necessarily a security feature and it is safety feature a lock out tag out feature in case the start get push inadvertently when working on the plane.

I would hate think would happen if a tool box or step stool was in the was of the prop arc if the button ever got inadvertently push on the ground when you were expecting it.

I suppose you could put a key fob  circuit from used/wreck car  in line starter   from a security prospective.

 

James '67C

Edited October 7, 2020 by jamesm

[Rwsavory]

The comments here are interesting and highlight the fact that the good old fashioned Bendix switch is hard to improve upon.

[carusoam]

3 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

The comments here are interesting and highlight the fact that the good old fashioned Bendix switch is hard to improve upon.

It takes about 50 years to even wear one out...

I found out mine was worn when it’s push to start wasn’t doing anything, by its new owner...

I went to catch up with him to give him a lesson on how to use the switch, and it was really not working...

So I offered him a couple of new fuel caps I had as a parting gift...   

There must be a MTBF recommendation for these things... 5k hours or so...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Oscar Avalle]

On 10/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, aviatoreb said:

I don't feel the main problem is not being able to see if it is on or off.  I think more so the problem would be simply forgetting to check.

As for failure in flight. well its two switches now and I suppose if one were to fail you still have the other - unlike a rotary switch.

I had one installed. I love it. It is much easier and functional to use and your mag checks are a no brainer. Now, on the downside, you have to remember to switch the mags off!! I forgot it already once or twice.

Oscar

[flyer338]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:37 PM, carusoam said:

It takes about 50 years to even wear one out...

I found out mine was worn when it’s push to start wasn’t doing anything, by its new owner...

I went to catch up with him to give him a lesson on how to use the switch, and it was really not working...

So I offered him a couple of new fuel caps I had as a parting gift...   

There must be a MTBF recommendation for these things... 5k hours or so...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

The Bendix switch in my M20C had 6500 hours plus when I sold the plane.

Not long ago I read about a fatal accident. The pilot turned the mags off and took the key out. A few moments later he turned the propeller slightly. The engine stared and ran for about two blades. It was enough to kill the pilot.

The FAA investigation found the ignition switch worn enough that the key could be removed without the mag being grounded.

This is a very scary, even if rare, possibility. It makes the dual switch set up attractive.

[mgan]

Do these switches work with shower of sparks?