Modern Winglets

[gsxrpilot]

23 minutes ago, Blue on Top said:

I'm guessing then there are more than one balance weight configurations.

Yes, and I think this threw them a curve ball on the certification. Some J's came with the squared off wingtips as in your picture. Later J's came with the 201 fiberglass wingtips. Those with the molded wingtips have a different internal balance weight configuration. I believe all the K's have the same internal balance weights. But with mine we noticed that there is a difference in the size of the weights between the 252 and the Encore.

[Blue on Top]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

Those with the molded wingtips have a different internal balance weight configuration.

Do you know how much the balance weight went up for the internal balance?  It's much cleaner, though.

 

[gsxrpilot]

Sorry, I don't.

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I believe LASAR has wingtips that can be fit to the short bodies. I had the 201 wingtips on my M20C, N6XM. There are pictures around here somewhere.

LASAR does offer wingtips but they have been “unavailable” for as long as I can remember 

[GDGR]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:07 AM, gsxrpilot said:

What, the good looks aren't enough? 

Did your wife marry you for your “good looks”???

[FoxMike]

When the Bravos got a 3368 gross weight, they exceeded the stall speed limit.  Quickest fix was to remove the flap gap seals.  The factory fixed the problem with new wing tips that increased lift enough so they stalled below 60kts.the later TNs could have the flap gap seals again.  I wonder if the factory drawings for that wing tip included the M and R models.

[PT20J]

Looks like it’s only the balance weight that you have to change rather than the entire aileron.

[Chris K]

The integrated lights and LED's do look incredible.  Anyone have cost plus difficulty of install information for these?

Before/After test flights if anyone else has this info would be interesting.

[kortopates]

Do you know how much the balance weight went up for the internal balance?  It's much cleaner, though.
 

Most of the balanced weight where all doubled in weight. The outboard aileron weight on the Encore protrudes a few more inches forward inside the wing tip. Wouldn’t be an issue for most, but I had really nice Nav antenna’s in there that would no longer fit which I had replace with (thankfully) much cheaper aluminum sheet metal antennas that LASAR already had a STC for. The new antennas work fine.


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[Hank]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:16 PM, kortopates said:

LASAR did some testing with their retrofit winglets for earlier J's and other vintage models and I believe they claimed no performance enhancement. Purely cosmetic; although their add says "1.0 mph speed improvement". But its a great opportunity IMO to use the wing tips to eliminate some antenna drag by placing the nav antenna's in them - something I've done and something LASAR also offered with their kit as well. Boost that speed enhancement to at least 3 mph! 

This is what they look like. Note the exposed aileron counterweight, unlike the sleek new Aveo unit that Paul has, complete with nav lights and strobes.

At least the LED units (which I don't have) are less expensive, only 0.4 AMU or so from @OSUAV8TER. I'm saving my pennies for panel updates . . . . And thise little green and red lights are still working just fine.

[kortopates]

This is what they look like. Note the exposed aileron counterweight, unlike the sleek new Aveo unit that Paul has, complete with nav lights and strobes.



At least the LED units (which I don't have) are less expensive, only 0.4 AMU or so from [mention=13533]OSUAV8TER[/mention]. I'm saving my pennies for panel updates . . . . And thise little green and red lights are still working just fine.

I don’t know if I would refer to those as “exposed” counter weight - just aileron horns. The elevators do have exposed counter weights.
But yours really aren’t that much different from my factory wing tips - it’s just that the later model aileron horns where made to fit in the wing tips unlike the retrofit wing tips you have. I really don’t think yours, or the factory ones, look all that different from the Aveo ones either - except for the nicer lights. But that’s easy to do with the Mooney wing tips too.


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[kris_adams]

On 7/21/2020 at 10:15 PM, RLCarter said:

LASAR does offer wingtips but they have been “unavailable” for as long as I can remember 

Any chance someone knows what it would take to get an order through?  Do we need a minimum of 10 people to sign up?  I'm pretty sure I'd be up for this.  -K

[RLCarter]

2 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

Any chance someone knows what it would take to get an order through?  Do we need a minimum of 10 people to sign up?  I'm pretty sure I'd be up for this.  -K

They offer 2, p# 107 & 107A the “A” moves or has the Nav antennas. There is no prices but I seem to remember them around the 5k mark

[kris_adams]

18 hours ago, RLCarter said:

They offer 2, p# 107 & 107A the “A” moves or has the Nav antennas. There is no prices but I seem to remember them around the 5k mark

I'd prefer the "A" and move the antennas if I was going to go through the process.

[RLCarter]

2 hours ago, Kris_Adams said:

I'd prefer the "A" and move the antennas if I was going to go through the process.

Either or for me, more labor to pull coax through the wing and plug where the old antennas where

[aviatoreb]

Has anyone here done the VOR into the wing tip mod?  I have often wondered about that.  Take off the towel bar VOR antenna on the tail and hide the VOR antenna in the wing tips.  How much speed is that worth?

[ArtVandelay]

Has anyone here done the VOR into the wing tip mod?  I have often wondered about that.  Take off the towel bar VOR antenna on the tail and hide the VOR antenna in the wing tips.  How much speed is that worth?

According to the old mod works website: 2 mph. YMMV

[aviatoreb]

13 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

According to the old mod works website: 2 mph. YMMV

Is that for a square tip mooney - add wing tips AND hide the antenna or is that for an already wing tipped mooney and from there hide the vor antenna?

In any case - 2mph aint much for a lot of trouble of removing the towel bars.

You know the speed improvement is small when they need to tell you the answer in mph instead of knots.  Maybe 1.1knots rounds to 1knot.  But 1.1 knots is 1.76mph and that rounds to 2mph!  Hey I am a math prof so I can exaggerate with math with the best of em'.

Edited July 24, 2020 by aviatoreb

[ArtVandelay]

Is that for a square tip mooney - add wing tips AND hide the antenna or is that for an already wing tipped mooney and from there hide the var antenna?
In any case - 2mph aint much for a lot of trouble of removing the towel bars.
You know the speed improvement is small when they need to tell you the answer in mph instead of knots.  Maybe 1.1knots rounds to 1knot.  But 1.1 knots is 1.76mph and that rounds to 2mph!  Hey I am a math prof so I can exaggerate with math with the best of em'.

It’s both, I don’t know if it’s compared to towel bars or cat whiskers.
I would not think of it as a speed mod, it’s an aesthetics mod, cleans up the tail.

[Niko182]

12 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

But 1.1 knots is 1.76mph and that rounds to 2mph!  Hey I am a math prof so I can exaggerate with math with the best of em'.

1.1 knots is 1.27mph, rounded up.

[aviatoreb]

56 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

1.1 knots is 1.27mph, rounded up.

Indeed!

And 1.1mph is 2956.79 furlongs per fortnight.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

It’s both, I don’t know if it’s compared to towel bars or cat whiskers.
I would not think of it as a speed mod, it’s an aesthetics mod, cleans up the tail.

It does look very nice!

But with a fresh paint job, and some other things I would sooner upgrade sooner I wouldn't be doing much for aesthetics alone at this moment.

Intuiton tells me - and I will be the first to admit intuition is worthless when it comes to aerodynamics, intuition tells me its worth at least 2 KNOTS to remove the towel bars I have maybe 3, and on top of that cut off my step another 2 or 3 and people tell me that's 0.nothing as well.  So for 2+2 to 3+3= 4 to 6 knots yeah I would be out there with my hax saw this weekend cutting off my towel bars and foot step.  But not for 0.nothing + 0.nothing = still 0.nothing would I damage my paint job.  (read oh point nothing).

[kortopates]

I’ve done it, not with Lasar’s but with my factory wingtips and have done it twice now with 2 different antenna’s. After exhaustive speed runs, by my excel calculations the speed difference came out 3.14159 kts. at 9500’ +/- 3



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[ArtVandelay]

I’ve done it, not with Lasar’s but with my factory wingtips and have done it twice now with 2 different antenna’s. After exhaustive speed runs, by my excel calculations the speed difference came out 3.14159 kts. at 9500’ +/- 3



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That’s because you were going in circles. :-)

[carusoam]

It’s a challenge to be mathematically funny...

You guys have nailed it!

-a-