My girl is missing teeth

[Mooney-Shiner]

Dear esteemed board, as I peel the proverbial onion that is my M20F, I find more stuff.

I found that starter ring gear is missing couple of teeth, and couple teeth nearby the those broken teeth have stress cracks and also about to break off. 

I suspect that this was my possible operator error in engaging the starter in the wrong time during engine start. 

The engagement gear on the starter doesn't look worn. 

Anyone have potential theories? We did a pre-buy few months ago, but didn't see any teeth missing. 

I'm hoping to fix it soon enough, since I don't think my wife appreciating this new piece of furniture in our living room. 

Thank you for your thoughts, guys. This forum is absolute gold.

Yuriy 

 

[carusoam]

That’s pretty funny...

I knew what I was going to read, just by the title... 

 

Now... what caused that... and how does it get fixed...

Often, a bad start causes a kickback... and the engine fights the starter... the gear is only aluminum, and the teeth are pretty easy to rip off...  the opposing Bendix drive has steel teeth...

 

My 65c looked very similar and getting it to start mostly avoided that particular area... this went on for a decade... without MS, I assumed that was going to cost more than I could afford...  every now and then the Bendix drive would slip out of place requiring to turn the key off and start again...

Realistically, this is probably a pretty fun project... Starts with getting the right replacement starter gear...  Getting the old one off May be  a heating process To get the gear to expand a bit... chances are the old ring doesn’t survive the removal process...

Putting the new one on is pre-heat at a set temp... let it cool in place...

Unfortunately... it looks like the prop needs to come off to get the ring gear in place...

It may be possible to get a used ring gear... ask Alan if he has one...

If not, it’s a Lycoming part, so it probably isn’t too expensive...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Seth]

As long as the prop is coming off, depending on age and condition, maybe reseal? IRAN? smooth out the edge and dress it with new paint?

 

-Seth

[carusoam]

Straightening up the the kitchen before the wife finds out... 

 

[RLCarter]

23 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Straightening up the the kitchen before the wife finds out... 

Back in the 80’s 5 of us were out riding our DualSport motorcycles, ended up at my apartment and decided to head to Austin for the weekend so all 5 bikes went in my kitchen. Notice I said my kitchen, was divorced at the time, when we got back the landlord was reworking the flowerbeds right outside my door, there was no way I could get in the door with out him seeing the bikes all lined up like on a showroom floor. It really didn’t phase him much, he asked if they leak oil (which they didn’t), he liked the fact that we had coasters under the kickstands and said his wife would §h*t a brick if saw it

[Danb]

Grab the pocketbooks, C has um loaded with cash 

[Guest]

When you engage the starter and the engine is running the back edge of the ring gear gets polished/damaged.  To remove the old steel gear, use a hacksaw to put a deep cut between 2 teeth.  DO NOT CUT THE ALUMINIUM SUPPORT. Stand the ring gear up on the shop floor with a cold chisel into the saw cut.  Hit it with a hammer to split the gear which should spring open and fall off.

Make note of the orientation of the teeth.  Place the new gear in the oven at about 350, pack the aluminum support in dry ice or put it in a box and discharge a CO2 fire extinguisher into the box to chill and shrink the support.  With suitable gloves quickly set the support on the floor and drop the ring gear onto the support.  
 

When they cool to room temperature they will be locked together.

 

Clarence

[GeeBee]

Do not know how Mooney's 4 cylingder  Lycoming mag switch operates. Some switches will ground the uncoupled mag in the start position to prevent back kicks. If they don't, I prefer toggle switches for the mags on a Lycoming so I can start the engine with only the coupled mag hot. That minimizes kickbacks which can damage the starter and ring gear.

 

 

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

13 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Back in the 80’s 5 of us were out riding our DualSport motorcycles, ended up at my apartment and decided to head to Austin for the weekend so all 5 bikes went in my kitchen. Notice I said my kitchen, was divorced at the time, when we got back the landlord was reworking the flowerbeds right outside my door, there was no way I could get in the door with out him seeing the bikes all lined up like on a showroom floor. It really didn’t phase him much, he asked if they leak oil (which they didn’t), he liked the fact that we had coasters under the kickstands and said his wife would §h*t a brick if saw it

After my new HD Sportster (1968) was stolen after 3 months of ownership, there were occasions when my next Sportster could be found during the night inside my home! 

[carusoam]

I visited a work friend at his house in the Dallas area in the 90s... His Sportster doubled as a clothes hanger in his bedroom... 
 

Typical of many pieces of home exercise equipment...

the bike was slowly getting renovated as dollars allowed...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MooneyMitch]

Clothes hanger worthy.................................

[RLCarter]

I've worked on tons of Sportsters over the years, I did a ground up on a guys 57' he had purchased brand new. He had taken it apart himself in the late 70's and I mean apart, it was bagged and tagged and boxed up till I got in the mid 90's

[Mooney-Shiner]

All done.  I brought my starter gear to Zephyr Aircraft engines (Zephyrhills, FL).  They charged $220($180 for the part, $40 for the labor) to get the ring replaced with new one and then my A&P and I installed the prop back on.  My A&P advised to get the prop balanced, but this will be another thread.  

Thank you for your help, guys!

Edited July 6, 2020 by ukrsindicat@yahoo.com

[carusoam]

wow...  The power of MS is Awesome!
 

Nice follow-up UKRs

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Hank]

6 hours ago, ukrsindicat@yahoo.com said:

All done.  I brought my starter gear to Zephyr Aircraft engines (Zephyrhills, FL).  They charged $220($180 for the part, $40 for the labor) to get the ring replaced with new one and then my A&P and I installed the prop back on.  My A&P advised to get the prop balanced, but this will be another thread.  

Thank you for your help, guys!

So no living room wall art? Or kitchen trip hazard? Good for you!