Useful load, how important is it to you?

[Sean S]

1007 UL, on 75F.

[Tim Jodice]

Thanks for the photo flip.

[ArtVandelay]

41 minutes ago, airtim said:

What is your opinion? If you were to update the panel what would you do?

WX10 is 10lbs

Vacuum system is 6-18 if you have electric backup.

The 2 HSIs are 5lbs each, a G5 would weigh 1.

A jpi 900 or equivalent weighs 1lb and replaces all engine instruments and shadin fuel flow box.

how much does radar altimeter weigh?

how much does the mfd weigh?

im guessing your anti ice is heavy.

 

[Tim Jodice]

Did I say it is an awesome day!

5:30 traffic out of Boston. Looks like Sunday morning. Different times.

[Tim Jodice]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

im guessing your anti ice is heavy.

 

It is 100 pounds full.

[skydvrboy]

I have 1067 lbs UL in my F model and I have used every bit of it several times.  I often fly with my wife and 2 kids (17 YO boy and 15 YO girl)... add in luggage, flight bag, etc. and I already have to leave a few gallons of Avgas behind.  

Until the kids move out, there is NO WAY we could get by with less.  My wife already complains when I tell her she can't bring home a suitcase full of rocks for the garden! 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

What??????

Are those tiny people your kids?

[MIm20c]

I’d drain the tks down to 1-3 gallons depending on the season. The J does not really have the power to push the ice, you really need to get out ASAP.  The post above mentioned the items that I’d bin first. The lighter you are the faster you’ll climb (especially important for getting out of ice) and cruise. 

[Brian E.]

2 hours ago, airtim said:

5:00 on Friday all is well!

All is well.  You're inverted--that's awesome!

[KLRDMD]

If I could have made 892lb useful load work would still have my 231. But alas, I need more so am very happy picking up almost 250 lb more in my current Bonanza.

[Ross Taylor]

The useful load in our E is about 825 pounds...which actually is plenty for myself and my wife...even with full fuel...we'd still have almost 180 pounds available.  But we never get close to that, because for us the bigger limit is density altitude and performance.  Our field is just a hair under 7000' (high, not long) and in the warmer months we get scary high density altitudes...so the limit for us isn't so much what can we fit inside...it's whether we'll end up in the trees.  No thanks! 

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, Ross Taylor said:

The useful load in our E is about 825 pounds...which actually is plenty for myself and my wife...even with full fuel...we'd still have almost 180 pounds available.  But we never get close to that, because for us the bigger limit is density altitude and performance.  Our field is just a hair under 7000' (high, not long) and in the warmer months we get scary high density altitudes...so the limit for us isn't so much what can we fit inside...it's whether we'll end up in the trees.  No thanks! 

My wife and I took a flying trip around the West several years ago in our M20C. It was July and we were landing in Flagstaff after two legs from Austin. We didn't have a place to stay yet that night. I told my wife, "if we land, we're staying the night." I knew we wouldn't be able to take off in the heat of the afternoon in the C. We landed, found a room for the night and were back in the air at 6am. The good news was we were heading to SoCal. So I only needed enough altitude to clear the trees at the end of runway 21. From there it was all down hill the rest of the way.

We were almost home after a 3 week trip, and decided to sell the M20C. We had it sold before we got home. And two weeks later went and picked up the 252.

[gsxrpilot]

5 hours ago, airtim said:

What is your opinion? If you were to update the panel what would you do?

This... more capability and functionality with a third of the stuff. In fact, once the second Aspen goes in, four other instruments will come out. A pretty good swap.

[Oldguy]

5 hours ago, airtim said:

What is your opinion? If you were to update the panel what would you do?

Since you asked:

Pull Attitude Indicator, HSI, TC, VSI, second HSI, Radar Alt, WX10, standby vac, MX 20, Insight, Shadin, factory EGT, tach, and all associated equipment in the avionics bay.

And if your speed brakes are electric, pull the engine vac pump and all associated plumbing, filters and regulators. Otherwise, leave the engine vacuum system to run just them, but still pull the standby vac.

Install Aspen 2000 MAX, JPI EDM 900, and WX 500 if you want the functionality. Can still get it displayed on the GNS as well as the Aspens. The Aspens will also take the ADS-B In from the Stratus to display if you buy the unlock for them.

Now you can put your #2 radio and the Stratus in the center stack. Move the 297B over under the gear lever, slide the Altimeter over 1 position to the right, and put the EDM 900 Landscape under the Altimeter and 297B. Aspens will sit where you currently have the Attitude Indicator/HSI and the Altimeter/VSI.

Keep the Airspeed Indicator to balance out the look of the panel since you have to keep the altimeter for the 297B. (Airplane panel Feng Shui.)

Because of the physical shapes of the EDM 900 and the Aspens, all of this can be done without having to cut a new panel. Yes, it might look better to not have a cover behind the old gauge cutout, and you would need a couple of blanks or adapters to fit the Altimeter in the 3ATI hole and the 297B in a round hole, but it could be done.

And, if humanly possible, have them pull the dead wire when they redo everything.

You have just gained a bunch of UL.

[Ragsf15e]

The F models look awesome in this thread!  Mine has 1034UL even with a 3 blade prop!  I try not to load the 52 year old girl to gross, but it hasn’t been a problem to fly 500nm with an hour reserve and stay 50-75 lbs below max!  That’s with 2 adults, 2 kids and weekend bags.

[Ross Taylor]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

My wife and I took a flying trip around the West several years ago in our M20C. It was July and we were landing in Flagstaff after two legs from Austin. We didn't have a place to stay yet that night. I told my wife, "if we land, we're staying the night." I knew we wouldn't be able to take off in the heat of the afternoon in the C. We landed, found a room for the night and were back in the air at 6am. The good news was we were heading to SoCal. So I only needed enough altitude to clear the trees at the end of runway 21. From there it was all down hill the rest of the way.

We were almost home after a 3 week trip, and decided to sell the M20C. We had it sold before we got home. And two weeks later went and picked up the 252.

Well, the next time you're stuck in Flagstaff for the night you need to let me know.  That goes for any MSer, actually.

[Ross Taylor]

6 hours ago, Bayern Speed said:

1007 UL, on 75F.

I wish I had 1000+ pounds UL!  Love your pawn shop show, by the way! 

[RobertGary1]

10 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Full fuel UL for me is 510, and my regular copilot and I together have 150 or so left over. When we carry 4 of us for a lunch or dinner flight, with 3 hours of fuel and legal reserves, we are still under GW.

For me, my magic number on UL would be 900+ in my J. Being as I am 4 lbs. away from that, I feel sure shaving off a few pounds with the interior overhaul will get me there.

Fill 1/2 that tank with foam if it bothers you. Why are you filling the tanks? How often do you have 6 hour legs?

 

-Robert 

[RobertGary1]

56 minutes ago, Ross Taylor said:

I wish I had 1000+ pounds UL!  Love your pawn shop show, by the way! 

Same with my 

 

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

The F models look awesome in this thread!  Mine has 1034UL even with a 3 blade prop!  I try not to load the 52 year old girl to gross, but it hasn’t been a problem to fly 500nm with an hour reserve and stay 50-75 lbs below max!  That’s with 2 adults, 2 kids and weekend bags.

I also have a bit over 1,000 lbs of useful load in my F. I’m also smart enough to not fly with 380 lbs of fuel unless I need it. 
 

-Robert 

[M20F-1968]

12 hours ago, airtim said:

What is your opinion? If you were to update the panel what would you do?

6 hours ago, Oldguy said:

There are lots of ways to do this, but going glass is a good way to quickly get increased functionality and reduce weight.  The panel attached is a 1968 F model.  It retains full backup and adds modern technology.  I could have shed more weight if Digital autopilots were around when I did this but they were not.  I think your vintage panel has an instrument panel bow which, if present, will make the installation of a new panel easier than in earlier F models.  Or, if not, one could be installed.

John Breda

 

[Tim Jodice]

7 hours ago, Oldguy said:

And, if humanly possible, have them pull the dead wire when they redo everything.

Agreed, I would make sure of that. 

[Tim Jodice]

13 hours ago, Ibra said:

Some may know better but the big beast is the legacy autopilot (or remove RHS yoke and pedals )

How much heavier are legacy autopilots than a new one?

[Ibra]

I think legacy APs are about 30lbs-40lbs, wile GFC500 with new motors is probably 40% lighter, that could make at least 20lbs, maybe lot more than that with vacuum replacements 

[Bob - S50]

To answer your question.  UL was very important to us when we were looking for a plane.  We wanted a J and would not consider one that had a UL under 950.  Our '78J now has a UL of 1002 lbs.  We wanted the ability to put 4 people in the plane and enough fuel to go somewhere.  I've had 4 people on board maybe 6 or 7 times.  One of my partners does it occasionally too.

While your current UL may work for you, it may limit your ability to sell the plane when you decide you need something else.

I agree, we rarely fill the tanks.  The only time I do it is to tanker fuel.  And you can't do that without a good useful load.  I also agree with others that my wife and I plan to stop about every 3 hours or so but we have been known to fly a bit longer than that depending on the mission (like needing to get from Seattle to Grand Forks, ND in one day for a funeral).  40 gallons is enough to fly for 3 hours.  Adding the extra 24 gallons would just reduce the allowable payload by 144 lbs.  However, since our UL is now over 1000 lbs, we just decided to start leaving the plane with 50 gallons on board because that makes refueling and preflight fuel level checking easy.  Still leaves us with 702 lbs for payload.  That's enough to load up 3 people with bags and fly over 600 NM with reserves.

As for losing weight...

Changing from a KFC150 to a GFC500 will save you about 20 pounds and you'll have a more capable autopilot.

Our plane came with a radar altimeter and we pulled it.  The only thing you need that for is to fly a Cat II or Cat III approach which we can't do.  That could save a few pounds.

If funds are unlimited, get rid of the GNS430 and MFD and get newer GPS.  If you really think you need the big screen, make it the GTN750 or IFD540.  That's a couple more pounds.

I personally don't see the need for a storm scope.  While it would be nice to see where the lightening is, I can watch for that visually and I'm sure a hell not going to go flying IMC in and around TRW.

And like someone else said, don' fill the TKS tank unless you actually need it.

[ArtVandelay]

3 hours ago, airtim said:

How much heavier are legacy autopilots than a new one?

STec servos are 3.9 vs gfc 1.4lbs for example .   So given some savings with the computer, works out to be about 10lbs lighter for 3 servos system.