Surefly ignition

[EricJ]

12 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Looks like there are some inherent safety issues that can be (or need to be) handled differently than having a keyed ignition switch...

1) Mechanical safety for the equipment... trying to start the plane with both mags on...  the ordinary mag will have a tendency to try to fire off before TDC... with the prop slowly turning, this could be problematic...

The Supercubs that I did my tailwheel training in just had two toggle switches for the mags, and a placard that said to start with only the left mag.   This was back before I understood how an impulse coupler worked, and thought, well, both has to be better.  I always started them with "both" and a fair amount of the time it would kick back like a mule, which has got to be really hard on the starter and other things.   My instructor, who had been flying those things forever, never said anything about it, which, in hindsight, seems a little strange.   

 

[Spurious Moppet]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Honestly, I’d have one more concern... not getting them both off after shutdown.  I really like the idea of the mag switches and push to start, but a hot mag scares me.  I think it’s just slightly more difficult to forget to turn the key off and remove it.  Even with that, you could still end up with a hot mag if they aren’t grounded.  Be careful with the prop when you’re moving the airplane!

I am always paranoid about this and more so now. I'm trying to think of the best way to handle it from a habit pattern perspective. It would be nice if there was a way to install a buzzer that would go off anytime either mag is not off and the master switch is off, or better yet if the mags aren't off and the engine is not running.

I think I might make a little lockout pin with a flag that goes across the bottom of the switches after shutdown as a mechanical safety measure and a shutdown habit item similar to putting the key on the dash.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Frozen Flying said:

I am always paranoid about this and more so now. I'm trying to think of the best way to handle it from a habit pattern perspective. It would be nice if there was a way to install a buzzer that would go off anytime either mag is not off and the master switch is off, or better yet if the mags aren't off and the engine is not running.

I think I might make a little lockout pin with a flag that goes across the bottom of the switches after shutdown as a mechanical safety measure and a shutdown habit item similar to putting the key on the dash.

I was trying to figure out a way to get an outside visual check that the switches are off, like putting the key on the glareshield.   Maybe that's just one of the downsides of using that style of switch.

 

[M20C66Q]

On 11/29/2019 at 2:19 PM, EricJ said:

The Supercubs that I did my tailwheel training in just had two toggle switches for the mags, and a placard that said to start with only the left mag.   This was back before I understood how an impulse coupler worked, and thought, well, both has to be better.  I always started them with "both" and a fair amount of the time it would kick back like a mule, which has got to be really hard on the starter and other things.   My instructor, who had been flying those things forever, never said anything about it, which, in hindsight, seems a little strange.   

 

I flew those Super Cubs out of CHD. I recall starting those  with both mags switches (ON).  

[Igor_U]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:32 AM, Bob_Belville said:

1/2 day. Pretty easy. Biggest task is running a wire from the battery to the SIM. (If the plane is a C with the battery on the firewall even easier.) 

If there's a electronic tach and it's tapped into the left mag it would get moved to the remaining mag. 

Bob,

Just curious about the wire run to the SIM: Did your mechanic run it through the cabin and firewall or under the belly into the cowl?

Thanks.

[Bob_Belville]

I removed (and reinstalled) the port side cabin panels. The wire from the battery to the SEM is routed down the left side along with many wires running between the remote avionics and the instrument panel.


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[Prior owner]

Okay, you guys have me sold on sticking with the original push to start switch!

Edited December 4, 2019 by PilotCoyote

[DXB]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:25 PM, Marauder said:

 

It’s a pain to get to. It’s mounted on my 75F on the back of a panel that is part of a removable portion of the firewall. The engines side has the voltage regulator, RF filter and other stuff attached to it. If you have the SWTA 201 conversion, you have a small access panel that at least you can see the SoS.





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I'm debating whether to have all this stuff removed when my panel gets opened up in January for Aspen upgrade and G5 backup install. They will be tearing out the vac system at the same time. 

Part of me wants to keep it in place in case this newfangled Surefly stuff doesn't work out and I need to go back to a regular mag.

 

[DXB]

I am intrigued by this statement on the Surefly website BTW.  Increased reliability and variable timing on both mags has great appeal. I assume  that means they are working on a mag that has an internal alternator to make it completely autonomous?  I doubt it could get STC'd otherwise.  In this case, they would beat Emag, which has been very slow to move toward STC.  

[Marauder]

I am intrigued by this statement on the Surefly website BTW.  Increased reliability and variable timing on both mags has great appeal. I assume  that means they are working on a mag that has an internal alternator to make it completely autonomous?  I doubt it could get STC'd otherwise.  In this case, they would beat Emag, which has been very slow to move toward STC.  

They already have a mag with the onboard alternator. Saw one being installed on an RV a couple of weeks ago. Whether it makes it to the certified market is a question mark.


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[Browncbr1]

Sorry I couldn’t find through search.  What is the current draw of the sim while the plane is just sitting in the hangar?   And, if the battery is disconnected and reconnected, will it work fine?  No programming issues if power is lost?

Edited December 8, 2019 by Browncbr1

[Ragsf15e]

So I’m reading through installation instructions and can’t find this exactly, but does tach wire for jpi 930 get switched over to right mag when Surefly is put in left? 

[carusoam]

@Bob_Belville may know this answer...   ^^^^

Or know where to find it.

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/9/2019 at 6:27 PM, Ragsf15e said:

So I’m reading through installation instructions and can’t find this exactly, but does tach wire for jpi 930 get switched over to right mag when Surefly is put in left? 

Yes

[DXB]

On 12/9/2019 at 6:27 PM, Ragsf15e said:

So I’m reading through installation instructions and can’t find this exactly, but does tach wire for jpi 930 get switched over to right mag when Surefly is put in left? 

 

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Yes

My JPI EDM900 rpm sensor is on the right mag presently so I'm good; however this sensor relay was the single most finicky component of the JPI to get working reliably when it was first installed, and it's a little stress inducing to lose reliable rpm data in flight.  The Surefly website reads that the Surefly does have an rpm output signal compatible with some rpm gauges but JPI is not mentioned.  The install manual seems to say nothing about an rpm output.

[DXB]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:14 PM, Marauder said:

 

They already have a mag with the onboard alternator. Saw one being installed on an RV a couple of weeks ago. Whether it makes it to the certified market is a question mark.


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Interesting I see nothing on the Surefly website about such a product currently available for experimental market.  Was it a developmental prototype?  I know the Emags have this feature and have been available for experimental for some time.

[Marauder]

Interesting I see nothing on the Surefly website about such a product currently available for experimental market.  Was it a developmental prototype?  I know the Emags have this feature and have been available for experimental for some time.

I’ll find out this weekend when I see the RV boys. Those guys have all the coolest new toys.


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[Ragsf15e]

9 hours ago, DXB said:

 

My JPI EDM900 rpm sensor is on the right mag presently so I'm good; however this sensor relay was the single most finicky component of the JPI to get working reliably when it was first installed, and it's a little stress inducing to lose reliable rpm data in flight.  The Surefly website reads that the Surefly does have an rpm output signal compatible with some rpm gauges but JPI is not mentioned.  The install manual seems to say nothing about an rpm output.

Yeah I was surprised by the lack of mentioning the rpm output in the install manual as well.  Should be fine on the right mag though.

[Bob_Belville]

10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Yeah I was surprised by the lack of mentioning the rpm output in the install manual as well.  Should be fine on the right mag though.

@AGL Aviation... Lynn may have consulted with SureFly before he moved my RPM pickup from the left to right mag as part of the install. In any case he knew to do it and the EDM930 was happy, happy, happy...

[jamesm]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

@AGL Aviation... Lynn may have consulted with SureFly before he moved my RPM pickup from the left to right mag as part of the install. In any case he knew to do it and the EDM930 was happy, happy, happy...

So JPI use one RPM Pickup ?  what happen if your right mag dies does that mean you have no RPM indication ?

Just curious,  Is  JPI using the P-Lead as the RPM pick up point ? or???

I am  currently installing a Surefly  with  EI CGR30C&P   Engine monitor,  Surefly FAQ's  say to use 18K ohm resistor.

I guess I will find out soon enough.

James

 

[kortopates]

So JPI use one RPM Pickup ?  what happen if your right mag dies does that mean you have no RPM indication ?
Just curious,  Is  JPI using the P-Lead as the RPM pick up point ? or???
I am  currently installing a Surefly  with  EI CGR30C&P   Engine monitor,  Surefly FAQ's  say to use 18K ohm resistor.
I guess I will find out soon enough.
James
 

If you are using the EI monitor, nothing about the JPI rpm sensor applies to you. EI is completely different and works off wires connected to the p-leads on the back of your ignition switch. They can take a resistor in-line as well.


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[jamesm]

 I am curious on how and where JPI picks up the RPM? And does the  JPI only do one mag ?

 

Thanks,

James

[JimB]

3 hours ago, jamesm said:

 I am curious on how and where JPI picks up the RPM? And does the  JPI only do one mag ?

 

Thanks,

James

Yes. The sensor is only attached to one mag and it is a hall effect type sensor. 

[Shiny moose]

I would like to hear about surefly experiences , I am considering replacing my LT mag with surefly.

 

[ArtVandelay]

I would like to hear about surefly experiences , I am considering replacing my LT mag with surefly.
 

So do I, but I want to see pireps after a few hundred hours, see if they are reliable first.


Tom