Aviation Insurance Market Update

[chriscalandro]

That isn’t anywhere close to an analogous argument. It’s pure assholeishness. 
 

Also, yes it does. Any any new instructor I’ve had I spend as much time as the instructor wants going over paperwork, the airplane, any potential safety issues and anything else he or she may want to do before we fly. 
 

it’s my airplane, my money, and my instruction. I already stated I expect instructor insurance cost to be part of the rate. At the end of the day, your dick-ishness is not going to change my mind. Plus it hasn’t been an issue for me so far. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by chriscalandro

[carusoam]

Chris,

Some of us live and work or were born in NYC...  or even a bit north where we can add a Boston accent to the swears...

It doesn’t help you to use strong language in everyday conversations...

Look around... MS is pretty much a swear free, insult free zone... a no bullying type of place... and it is better for it.

Your frustration is showing.  Grab the bull by the horns.  
 

Often, people block posters that are aggressive... the pool of good answers gets smaller and smaller as you get blocked...

MS is on the internet... it isn’t the internet...

Best regards,

-a-

[chriscalandro]

In a discussion that was on its way back on the rails the comment I replied to was absolutely unnecessary. I've had unpopular opinions in the past and it doesn’t make me any more right or wrong than anyone else. 
 

you want to come at me with those BS comments because of my opinion? You’re going to get my opinion of what I think of you as well. 
 

I'm the same person in real life too. And there are several people on here I wouldn’t lend a spare screw to if you happened to be nearby.  others know I’ll help you rebuild your airplane then buy you lunch if I like you. 

[DualRatedFlyer]

2 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

That isn’t anywhere close to an analogous argument. It’s pure assholeishness. 
 

Also, yes it does. Any any new instructor I’ve had I spend as much time as the instructor wants going over paperwork, the airplane, any potential safety issues and anything else he or she may want to do before we fly. 
 

it’s my airplane, my money, and my instruction. I already stated I expect instructor insurance cost to be part of the rate. At the end of the day, your dick-ishness is not going to change my mind. Plus it hasn’t been an issue for me so far. 

I'm not sure what age group you identify with, and perhaps you already know, but /S is a symbol to imply sarcasim on many internet spaces. It's sometimes needed as the senders intent/text does not read the same when the receiver reads it. I hope I didn't offend you, I was only making a lighthearted joke among friends on mooneyspace. Whichever side of the debate you fall on is fine with me  I have no skin in the game, and have learned lots from the questions you've asked.

For what it's worth, I don't know you but I would lend you a screw and a hand if you broke down in my area. 

[chriscalandro]

All I’m saying is there are people who will jump on you for having an unpopular opinion. 
 

I took your comment as just that. 
 

if I was wrong than I’m sorry, but I’m just as much as an opinionated NY Italian as anyone else. 

[Marauder]

I'm not sure what age group you identify with, and perhaps you already know, but /S is a symbol to imply sarcasim on many internet spaces. It's sometimes needed as the senders intent/text does not read the same when the receiver reads it. I hope I didn't offend you, I was only making a lighthearted joke among friends on mooneyspace. Whichever side of the debate you fall on is fine with me  I have no skin in the game, and have learned lots from the questions you've asked.
For what it's worth, I don't know you but I would lend you a screw and a hand if you broke down in my area. 

Up yours Josh! /S (did I get that sarcasm right?)

And people want to know why a number of contributors are dropping off. Just read above. Panties in a bind over the weirdest stuff.

BTW - how is the hangar project coming along?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Ron McBride]

20 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

In a discussion that was on its way back on the rails the comment I replied to was absolutely unnecessary. I've had unpopular opinions in the past and it doesn’t make me any more right or wrong than anyone else. 
 

you want to come at me with those BS comments because of my opinion? You’re going to get my opinion of what I think of you as well. 
 

I'm the same person in real life too. And there are several people on here I wouldn’t lend a spare screw to if you happened to be nearby.  others know I’ll help you rebuild your airplane then buy you lunch if I like you. 

Chris.  I am not an instructor, but have been flying for over 45 years.  I have never asked an instructor about his insurance.  Early on I was grossly underinsured.  The internet was exposed me to a lot more information.  If I was to hire an instructor today, I would have no problem adding him to my policy.  I want the best instructor to teach me, not the time building youngster with no assets.    I would not be your instructor, you want to blame someone else and have them pay if there are problems.  You will learn that in litigation every loses except the attorneys, I would prefer all the attorneys sitting on my side of the table. 

And 50 bucks an hour is peanuts if you are self employed, especially when flying with you.  Insurance, taxes, working maybe 4 to 6 hours a day and then taxes. Leaves the CFI maybe a $100.00 bucks a day.  

Good luck in your flying adventures, be safe.  
 

Ron 

[DualRatedFlyer]

22 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Up yours Josh! /S (did I get that sarcasm right?)

And people want to know why a number of contributors are dropping off. Just read above. Panties in a bind over the weirdest stuff.

BTW - how is the hangar project coming along?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Your doing it all wrong. The wink after negates the /s. It's like a double negative. Don't you people twitter??

View of the runway from my garage. Steel gets here the 11th and the erecting process starts the same day. Counting on it to be the best erection of my life!

[MikeOH]

27 minutes ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Your doing it all wrong. The wink after negates the /s. It's like a double negative. Don't you people twitter??

View of the runway from my garage. Steel gets here the 11th and the erecting process starts the same day. Counting on it to be the best erection of my life!

 

I'm guessing you're going to be calling your doctor

Edited October 26, 2019 by MikeOH

[carusoam]

8 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

In a discussion that was on its way back on the rails the comment I replied to was absolutely unnecessary. I've had unpopular opinions in the past and it doesn’t make me any more right or wrong than anyone else. 
 

you want to come at me with those BS comments because of my opinion? You’re going to get my opinion of what I think of you as well. 
 

I'm the same person in real life too. And there are several people on here I wouldn’t lend a spare screw to if you happened to be nearby.  others know I’ll help you rebuild your airplane then buy you lunch if I like you. 

Do it in private...

we have people around here that are unable to handle your style...

Right or wrong... I like your style.

I just can’t afford to lose the other people that are effected by your performance.

Yes, we lose people because the environment is too harsh or too abrasive...

Mooney pilots without MS is sub-optimal.

MS with a declining population of pilots is also sub-optimal.

Look around take in the scenery... that isn’t language you hear on the radio in the cockpit...

There are plenty of tough guys around here... with cleaned up language...

This way we have a place where even women, children, and engineers can be comfortable...

We have one MS... don’t mess it up... 

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

This way we have a place where even women, children, and engineers can be comfortable...

Hey, now...

[chriscalandro]

I think you're confused about why people leave. 

 

Might it be the sense of superiority that happens all the time and is demonstrated in this thread and many others?

Could it be the shaming of members when they excitedly post about their airplanes or something they've done to their airplanes only to be told they've wasted their money?

I travel a lot. I've met a lot of Mooney owners. Most of them not on here for the reasons I mentioned above. Plus I have an inbox full of people saying the same. 

I don't care who you are or what you're experience is.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions. When the words start flying most people leave. Me, I don't care if people don't want to instruct me or not. Fact is, I never asked, and based on what happens here a lot, I never would have. My number 1 criteria for selecting an instructor is not experience (although it is number 2) it's - can I spend hours of my life with this person in a confined space. 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by chriscalandro

[Skates97]

20 hours ago, carusoam said:

Chris,

Some of us live and work or were born in NYC...  or even a bit north where we can add a Boston accent to the swears...

It doesn’t help you to use strong language in everyday conversations...

Look around... MS is pretty much a swear free, insult free zone... a no bullying type of place... and it is better for it.

Your frustration is showing.  Grab the bull by the horns.  
 

Often, people block posters that are aggressive... the pool of good answers gets smaller and smaller as you get blocked...

MS is on the internet... it isn’t the internet...

Best regards,

-a-

I'm a fan of the block user function. I have to deal with enough idiots in person I don't want to deal with them when online wanting to catch a break from the grind to read/talk/learn about Mooneys and flying.

[tmo]

On 10/27/2019 at 5:37 PM, Skates97 said:

I'm a fan of the block user function. I have to deal with enough idiots in person I don't want to deal with them when online wanting to catch a break from the grind to read/talk/learn about Mooneys and flying.

In the days of my youth, and USENET, it was called a "kill file"

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Back on topic, you guys aren't the only ones getting increases.  My Errors & Omissions insurance renewal quote went up by about 45% 

[RobertGary1]

4 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Back on topic, you guys aren't the only ones getting increases.  My Errors & Omissions insurance renewal quote went up by about 45% 

I was happy to see my Mooney insurance only go up 10%. I'd heard some got hit much worse. One of my previous underwriters is now double what I'm paying with my current underwriter.

-Robert

[chriscalandro]

Out of curiosity, what are people paying for coverage, what to do you have, what is your hull coverage?

[carusoam]

Chris,

in the middle of the night, it is better to use the search function...

There are plenty of threads to cover the price, coverage, and experience of the owners...

Best regards,

-a-

[DualRatedFlyer]

It would be interesting to once and for all collect some real data on a shared spreadsheet that lists all the different categories for hull value, pilot experience, etc to get a sense of what members pay and what provider they are with. There's lots of forums one here that I have seen posts with spotty data, but never anything that's consolidated. Most people say something like "my insurance is only xxxx per month..." And that's it. Devil is in the details. 

I would volunteer to put this together if folks were interested. 

[chriscalandro]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Chris,

in the middle of the night, it is better to use the search function...

There are plenty of threads to cover the price, coverage, and experience of the owners...

Best regards,

-a-

477 pages of threads with the topic scattered around many, many places. 

Most of it asking questions with not a while lot of real world data. 

[RobertGary1]

In some sense it’s like asking what people paid for stocks. The market changes a lot and a good rate last month may not be a good rate this month for the same pilot. It’s probably why the policy says it’s fully earned the first day, so people don’t shop weekly. 
 

-Robert 

[HRM]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

In some sense it’s like asking what people paid for stocks. The market changes a lot and a good rate last month may not be a good rate this month for the same pilot. It’s probably why the policy says it’s fully earned the first day, so people don’t shop weekly. 
 

-Robert 

Good analogy! As with stocks, a good broker is useful. I've found one that works for me, going on five or so years (probably longer since the memory fades and renewal is so seamless). No need to change, even to chase a .1 AMU reduction.

[RobertGary1]

14 minutes ago, HRM said:

Good analogy! As with stocks, a good broker is useful. I've found one that works for me, going on five or so years (probably longer since the memory fades and renewal is so seamless). No need to change, even to chase a .1 AMU reduction.

I got a spam email from another broken who said they had "new markets". I forwarded to my broker. He said since I've been with him for 20 years if I found a cheaper price he'd pay the difference out of his own pocket. When I got hit by a truck in Mexico he helped me out a lot. I don't think I'd change brokers.

-Robert

[carusoam]

8 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

477 pages of threads with the topic scattered around many, many places. 

Most of it asking questions with not a while lot of real world data. 

Looks like you need a better search engine... 

Best regards,

-a-

[HRM]

13 hours ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

I would volunteer to put this together if folks were interested. 

So, open a new thread, possibly a poll, and tell us what you want. You could use PM if guys are nervous about public details.

I would say to keep the KISS principle foremost; i.e., just the critical data.

Insurer, broker, hull value, hours flown per year, pilot age, aircraft details (I suggest this just be Mooney, there are some Mooney-Owner-Wannabe's in the space that we don't care what the insurance is on their Cessgnat), premium in AMU, etc. If the list of data is too long then the final numbers will not be robust.