Upgrade to the max?

[MIm20c]

I’m having a hard time committing to the max upgrade right now. Talked at length with Aspen yesterday about the upgrade and left the show with more doubts than answers. I feel like there is a 5 ish inch model in the pipeline (osh 2020?) that might catch my eye in the future. I also really like my pro just the way it is. So I started to make a list. 

Pros

Warranty - two year, repairs if need on mine $1300-2500 or exchange (5k) if it completely fried. 

Battery life - less than 30 vs 2 hrs. 

Faster processor - I could notice faster response even with the crs/heading selection  

independence from ps system failure  

 

Cons

Downtime 3 weeks- the upgrade is already expensive so I’d probably opt for sending in my unit.  Shop is a 4 hr drive one way  

Cost - it’s not so much the total cost but what can be purchased avionics wise with that money.  It would almost replace my 430w with a 440.

limited extra utility- without spending more to put in a max mfd some of the additional benefits like backup instruments is not realized  

 

Any other thoughts?  I have to admit I’m hesitating partly due to some recent announcements from other companies.

Picture from yesterday...

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

One on the right is way brighter unless it’s the more obtuse camera angle of the left one?


Tom

[NJMac]

Which other announcements have you thinking?

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[MIm20c]

13 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

One on the right is way brighter unless it’s the more obtuse camera angle of the left one?


Tom

The upgraded screen is more vibrant and doesn’t wash out when looking from the side (copilot). This is a complaint of my current unit but then again the copilot is not paying for the gas!

[MIm20c]

9 minutes ago, NJMac said:

Which other announcements have you thinking?
 

To be honest the cost of adding a mfd and upgrading both to max is about the same as putting in a g3x and selling my aspen system.  The Garmin system has the advantage of a cheap integrated adsb system that would allow me to keep my 330es and a two way (fs210 like) communication between iPad and my 430w. 

[Cruiser]

the MAX is Aspens move to the future. As more features are released (if any) they will most certainly require the MAX. 

You can stick with the current but you will suffer a cost penalty at sale (if you sell) so why not enjoy the benefits now?

 

[larryb]

I would like the upgrade but am not going to get it right now. Here are my reasons:

1. Aspen runs tons of special deals. I am confident they will have a good deal on the upgrade in the future. 
2. I am happy with my current Aspen displays. They are plenty bright enough and fast enough.
3. I am nervous about the down-time. They claim 2 weeks but who knows? If they get backed up when you send your old unit in it could easily stretch to 4 or 6 weeks, plus shipping and shop time. I would only do exchange, but don't really like the fact that they chose to monitize the exchange option. In my opinion all of the upgrades should be exchange, which would eliminate the risk.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm all in on this MAX upgrade and have also purchased an MFD to go with it.

For about the first three days after Garmin announced the G3X, I was rethinking this plan and could have backed out and gone Garmin. But after talking with Garmin, sitting through their webinar, reading everything over on Beachtalk, I'm convinced the G3X would be a step back in real capability in exchange for a larger screen. And in my Mooney cockpit with the panel only 12" from my face, the large screen isn't an improvement.

MAX Pros for me:

• Warrantee (I had bought a used PFD with no warrantee)
• No standby AI requirement (can remove all round gauges, clean panel)
• Upgrade pricing (I wanted to be early on the upgrade list and not wait for OSH 2020 for the next special pricing)

I was able to buy a refurbished MFD and then apply the MAX upgrade. Along with my Barnstormers special PFD, the MAX upgrade effectively turns a used PFD/MFD combo of dubious origins into new equipment with new warrantees.

The G3X route would have required a GFC500 autopilot to replicate what I have now. That's expensive and not even available as of today.

I already have ADSB, and an IFD540, neither would have worked with the G3X. 

[BaldEagle]

I've been considering the upgrade and have just had some dialog with Aspen the last couple of days.  $3k sounds like a no brainer to me especially considering that my warranty extension ($800) is due this year for my legacy Aspen, so that's a new $10k PFD for about $2.2k exchange, which also comes with a 2 year warranty.  My flying is very conservative these days, but the risk of losing AHRS with a pitot blockage has always bugged me with the first gen product.  Aspen says about half day labor to install (including wiring up audible alerts to the audio panel), which if accurate seems very reasonable.  So for shooting approaches the audible alerts adds another layer of safety as does the lack of dependence on pitot static when IMC.  I forgot to ask what labor is required to install a second MFD, but I think I'll go that route as well at some point.  And then remove the vacuum system as it's only driving a backup AI right now, but I digress...

[rbridges]

If I had just the PFD, I don't know.  I ended up getting a refurbished MFD and plan to do the Max upgrade. The biggest perk to me is being independent of the vacuum system. 

[Marauder]

I'm all in on this MAX upgrade and have also purchased an MFD to go with it.
For about the first three days after Garmin announced the G3X, I was rethinking this plan and could have backed out and gone Garmin. But after talking with Garmin, sitting through their webinar, reading everything over on Beachtalk, I'm convinced the G3X would be a step back in real capability in exchange for a larger screen. And in my Mooney cockpit with the panel only 12" from my face, the large screen isn't an improvement.
MAX Pros for me:

• Warrantee (I had bought a used PFD with no warrantee)
• No standby AI requirement (can remove all round gauges, clean panel)
• Upgrade pricing (I wanted to be early on the upgrade list and not wait for OSH 2020 for the next special pricing)

I was able to buy a refurbished MFD and then apply the MAX upgrade. Along with my Barnstormers special PFD, the MAX upgrade effectively turns a used PFD/MFD combo of dubious origins into new equipment with new warrantees.
The G3X route would have required a GFC500 autopilot to replicate what I have now. That's expensive and not even available as of today.
I already have ADSB, and an IFD540, neither would have worked with the G3X. 

The G3X was appealing except for the GFC 500 additional cost. If Don Kaye’s quest continues the way it is, GFC 500 installs will be in the $20k+ range. Too rich for my blood. Especially since everything I have seen and read on the STEC 3100 puts it on par with the GFC 600.


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[flumag]

For me the main driver to order the MAX was losing AHRS with a pitot blockage with the old Aspens. Also note requiring a backup AI anymore is helpful (it's getting clearer that's what the certification will end with) . Some small enhancements such as timers come also with the MAX upgrade beside the things that mentioned before in the MS thread. The flight timer is triggering on the GPS airspeed off 30 knt. Also the chart page has a timer that can be used for timing the approach.

I just changed the batteries in an old Evolutions 2000 system and the cost alone for that makes the step easy to the MAX.

If you see the two displays in direct comparison (did this this yesterday at SNF again) it's a no brainer. Also the dimming for night flying of the  MAX is better. I still found the older Aspens to still bright dimmed down as much as possible. 

What I dont like is the update process. Paying significantly in advanced and the shipping process of the old devices before the new one will be shipped out will ground the plane for several weeks.

That's not very customer friendly.

 

[M016576]

Does anyone know if you still need to “unlock” AoA and SV with the max displays?  Or do the unlocks from our previous displays carry over to the max upgrade?

[MIm20c]

11 minutes ago, M016576 said:

Does anyone know if you still need to “unlock” AoA and SV with the max displays?  Or do the unlocks from our previous displays carry over to the max upgrade?

The unlock stays with the configuration module so they should transfer over. 

1 hour ago, flumag said:

Also the dimming for night flying of the  MAX is better. I still found the older Aspens to still bright dimmed down as much as possible. 

What I dont like is the update process. Paying significantly in advanced and the shipping process of the old devices before the new one will be shipped out will ground the plane for several weeks.

Good to know about the night operation. The current screen still has a lot of backlight washout that is too bright at night. 

21 hours ago, Marauder said:

The G3X was appealing except for the GFC 500 additional cost. If Don Kaye’s quest continues the way it is, GFC 500 installs will be in the $20k+ range. Too rich for my blood. Especially since everything I have seen and read on the STEC 3100 puts it on par with the GFC 600.

 

If I spring for the g3x I’d probably stick with the stec 50. No way the gfc is going in. 

22 hours ago, BaldEagle said:

 I forgot to ask what labor is required to install a second MFD, but I think I'll go that route as well at some point.  And then remove the vacuum system as it's only driving a backup AI right now, but I digress...

This is one thing that bugs me. It’s almost the same cost to add a second screen after the fact. 

22 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The G3X route would have required a GFC500 autopilot to replicate what I have now. That's expensive and not even available as of today.

I already have ADSB, and an IFD540, neither would have worked with the G3X. 

Aspen said the upgrade is required for the 3100 integration. There will also be a $2k unlock for that capability. The 3100 looks stellar but with AP upgrade installs in the 12-14k range, 3k max upgrade, and a 2k unlock it will not be cheap. 

23 hours ago, larryb said:

I

1. I am nervous about the down-time. They claim 2 weeks but who knows? If they get backed up when you send your old unit in it could easily stretch to 4 or 6 weeks, plus shipping and shop time. I would only do exchange, but don't really like the fact that they chose to monitize the exchange option. In my opinion all of the upgrades should be exchange, which would eliminate the risk.

This is another reason I’m dragging my feet. I don’t mind being last in line to maximize the good weather in MI and see how efficient the process is for others. 

[Cruiser]

Aspen is claiming 10 day turn around for upgrades. You are contacted with a date to send the unit(s) in and they will return in 10 days.

[rbridges]

2 hours ago, flumag said:

For me the main driver to order the MAX was losing AHRS with a pitot blockage with the old Aspens. Also note requiring a backup AI anymore is helpful (it's getting clearer that's what the certification will end with) . Some small enhancements such as timers come also with the MAX upgrade beside the things that mentioned before in the MS thread. The flight timer is triggering on the GPS airspeed off 30 knt. Also the chart page has a timer that can be used for timing the approach.

I just changed the batteries in an old Evolutions 2000 system and the cost alone for that makes the step easy to the MAX.

If you see the two displays in direct comparison (did this this yesterday at SNF again) it's a no brainer. Also the dimming for night flying of the  MAX is better. I still found the older Aspens to still bright dimmed down as much as possible. 

What I dont like is the update process. Paying significantly in advanced and the shipping process of the old devices before the new one will be shipped out will ground the plane for several weeks.

That's not very customer friendly.

 

 

I'm a little concerned about the down time to upgrade since you can't fly without the panels.  

[Marauder]

Aspen is claiming 10 day turn around for upgrades. You are contacted with a date to send the unit(s) in and they will return in 10 days.

Was it just me or did I recall the original Aspen approach was to swap your old Aspen for a Max. I swear I remember that was the approach they were taking and somewhere along the way it became an upgrade of your existing product.


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[Marauder]

For me the main driver to order the MAX was losing AHRS with a pitot blockage with the old Aspens. Also note requiring a backup AI anymore is helpful (it's getting clearer that's what the certification will end with) . Some small enhancements such as timers come also with the MAX upgrade beside the things that mentioned before in the MS thread. The flight timer is triggering on the GPS airspeed off 30 knt. Also the chart page has a timer that can be used for timing the approach.
I just changed the batteries in an old Evolutions 2000 system and the cost alone for that makes the step easy to the MAX.
If you see the two displays in direct comparison (did this this yesterday at SNF again) it's a no brainer. Also the dimming for night flying of the  MAX is better. I still found the older Aspens to still bright dimmed down as much as possible. 
What I dont like is the update process. Paying significantly in advanced and the shipping process of the old devices before the new one will be shipped out will ground the plane for several weeks.
That's not very customer friendly.
 

Is there any documentation what the new Max’s capabilities will be? I like the timer but curious if there are other capabilities.

As for the night lighting. I still find the Aspen pretty bright when on auto mode and when I switch it to manual brightness, I don’t like haziness the display begins showing at lower light settings.


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[flumag]

7 minutes ago, Marauder said:

As for the night lighting. I still find the Aspen pretty bright when on auto mode and when I switch it to manual brightness, I don’t like haziness the display begins showing at lower light settings. 


 

Hi Chris, yes the MAX's are different. I tried it yesterday and you could dim the MAX significantly more than the old Aspen. I was doing it with the manual bright adjustment to not cover both lights sensors for minutes. Didn't took a picture since you would not see a lot. The haziness is  better especially at lower brightness on the MAX.   

Hendrik

[rbridges]

33 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Was it just me or did I recall the original Aspen approach was to swap your old Aspen for a Max. I swear I remember that was the approach they were taking and somewhere along the way it became an upgrade of your existing product.


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I'm not sure when you started talking to them.  I had the PFD installed in September, and I was under the impression that it was going to be a "send it in and upgrade" situation.  Not sure if I was told that, or if I just assumed it.  I spoke with the local rep this February, and he said they basically swap out everything except the bezel and knobs.  

[MIm20c]

The exchange option is another 500? Per display. 

[LANCECASPER]

At Oshkosh last summer, the day that they announced the Max, I stopped by the booth and, at that point, I heard that they were exchanging the units. A few days later I heard that they were making you send in yours for the upgrade.

Yesterday I heard that between 15 and 20 people a day are signing up for the max upgrades. Best case scenario, if it takes 2 weeks to do the upgrade by the time it travels there and back and gets installed, that means that there are between 150-200 aircraft grounded (AOG) at any given time due to the upgrades. Again, best case scenario . . .

Combine that with all of the airplanes in the shops for ADS-B and it should be interesting where all of these planes will be stored. Add in the complexity of dropping the airplane off and getting a ride home and then the reverse two weeks later  . . .

For people that have multiple screens, if they charged $500 for exchange on all three units I'd do it, just to simplify things.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm not worried about the other 150 to 200 airplanes. I'm only worried about mine 

So I went by the avionics shop today to verify that I've got a place in line for the MAX upgrade. Along with a place on the schedule at the avionics shop. Hopefully it will be a quick in and out.

[DXB]

I am lined up for a MAX upgrade to my pfd also.  I will use the downtime to take care of my other avionics wants - install Garmin G5 backup, vac system out, add Wx500 stormscope.

Am a little worried the MAX name for anything is cursed going forward - fortunately I have not heard anything about an MCAS feature.  

 

 

[M016576]

19 hours ago, MIm20c said:

his is one thing that bugs me. It’s almost the same cost to add a second screen after the fact. 

Yes- I’ve had 4 or 5 shops quote me this as well.... they all say it’s 25-30 hours to add a mfd to the PFD.

either it’s a conspiracy, or they have to remake the whole wire harness.  Seems short sighted to me by aspen.. particularly because they have touted their system as being “upgradable,” which in my mind translated to easily and quickly upgradable.  Apparently that isn’t the case.