Just bought a junk m20c Ranger

[BrianNC]

45 minutes ago, Marauder said:

And oh yeah, get your medical started. Maybe you won’t pass even Basic Med. Then what you going to do?

This. 

[Niko182]

you might want to also consider some of the Vans RV kits. you can work on your aircraft without the A&P / AI. in the end it might be the same cost, and you'll get an aircraft with better avionics, faster cruise, and a better overall aircraft for fun flying.

I'm not saying the mooney isn't fun to fly. I'm saying its no RV-8.

[gsxrpilot]

It probably won't take more than $100K and a few years to turn it into a $40K airplane.

Like @Niko182 said, if I were a builder... I'd be on the phone to Van's.

[Yetti]

Might be helpful to give us some of your mechanical background.    If the airframe is good you are $22K and a year ahead of a vans kit.    If you are a craftsman, Does it not have and engine?   or you need to do a rebuild?   I would make friends with an IA.... fast

[Guest]

If the plane has a sound airframe, you can restore it faster than you can build a Vans Aircraft.  With the changes happening in avionics there are lots of good choices.

Find a helpful and willing maintainer to look it over with you and guide you through the process.

Clarence

[bonal]

Hopefully you will find no bad issues that make this unrealistic. We all seem to think it's great when someone is willing to bring one back to life so I say good luck and please keep the updates on your progress as you will find this a great source for information and help as things come up along the way. 

[Kmac]

Best wishes...that is a lot of projects to take on at once.  Buying an airplane, building an airplane, learning to work on an airplane, learning to fly, learning if you are able and even like to fly.

It is possible and I hope you accomplish it all.

[M20F-1968]

Your bringing back memories.....

I rebuilt a 1968 F model that had sat in  a hangar for 26 years in Dallas.  It had no corrosion, no damage Hx and 1960 hours total time.

Naturally it was not airworthy when purchased, in fact it was in many ways disassembled, although it still had the wing attached.  My first mistake was to try to rebuild it from a distance.  I did accomplish this, but with many headaches.  I do not know where you live or where the plane is, but I would move it close to you, in a reasonably priced hangar/work area  where you can be for a long undetermined amount of time.   Get an excellent Mooney IA to make absolutely sure that the steel cage and spars have no corrosion.  Take the wing off it to move it long distance if needed but get it near you.  Take everything apart, and rebuild from the beginning.  Once everything is gutted, clean, epoxy paint the inside of the cabin, and go from there.

You can end up with a very nice aircraft.  Take a look at my pictures on this site.  

I probably would not replace with an A1A Lycoming, but get a new counterbalance, roller bearing engine.  Mine is turbonormalized. You probably can not do this any more as parts and STC are not available.  If your remain normally aspirated, consider the top prop or MT prop.  Long range tanks makes this a awesome plane --  90 gallons gets you a long way on 11 gallons an hour ROP or 8.5 gph LOP.  Mine is 160 kts at 10,000 feet, 75% power ROP,  168 kts with everything forward at 10,000 ft, 175 kts 18,000 ft and 75% power.  

OSH --> BOS 5 hours nonstop with 1/2 fuel remaining.

The rest are choices based on equipment you want to use, interior choices, etc.  I used a DER which allowed me to make many upgrades and customizations copying what Mooney did over the years.  That was what made the project viable.  I wasted too much time and money trying to go through FAA field approvals.  The more work you can do, the better so find a Mooney savy A&P/IA to work with.  201 windshield and new cowling are worth the work since you are starting at this level.  Go one piece belly for an upgrade which is also a repair.

I would not do the RV thing.  If you want to have more freedom in rebuilding, you can always move it to the experimental class.  I did not do that as I thought it best to keep it all certified.  The Mooney is a much more substantial airplane.  Speeds are similar.  I have never flown a RV but I suspect the Mooney is a more stable instrument platform.  

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

I just realized you had a C and not an E.  I believe there is an STC out there to put a IO-360 fuel injected engine into the C.  I would go that route if possible.

John Breda

[carusoam]

Summing up the beginning steps...

1) M20C plane acquired, post gear-up incident....

2) needs many parts related to the GU... engine, prop, belly panels...

3) needs a physical, low cost home to house the project...

4) needs a relationship with local mechanic A&P...

5) needs a few helpful documents...  maintenance manual, parts manual...

6) needs to understand what work can be done by owners with a PPL.

7) Too late for a PPI... but a post purchase inspection will work equally well.

8) An IO360 can be used on the M20C... Lasar has the STC documents available for that....

9) experience comparison... Many people around MS have become M20C owners after about 100hours of combined flight training and experience...

10) If building a perfect plane is the goal... this is a great way to start.   See the John Breda example above...

11) If building a low cost plane at a discount is the goal... See the advice on turning 100amu into a 40amu plane...

12) For parts.... we have a couple of people that have a treasure trove of parts... Find Jerry and Alan...

13) For a great resource for Mooneys in the Carolinas... Find Tamara @AGL...

14) Start building a checklist, a to do list, and a bunch of other lists....

15) M20Es make great retirement planes...

16) An M20C with an IO360 is a great simulation of an M20E.

17) therefore a properly outfitted M20C makes a great retirement plane...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Every now and then I get excited and think I want to build a plane.   Then I figure out it is 2 years and $30K and all I will have is an airframe.  still need motor and all the other stuff.   You are at the finished airframe part.   If you are good with tools you could probably rebuild the engine yourself.

[Marauder]

I just realized you had a C and not an E.  I believe there is an STC out there to put a IO-360 fuel injected engine into the C.  I would go that route if possible.
John Breda

John - maybe help the OP with a dose of financial reality. If you didn’t count in some of things you did like re-skinning to get round windows, upgrading to a turbo, etc. how much could this rebuilder expect to spend to rebuild this plane?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[gsxrpilot]

7 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

If you want to have more freedom in rebuilding, you can always move it to the experimental class. 

This is not really a viable option. It would limit the airplane to solo, day VFR, and limited range. Much like flying it around on a Ferry permit. You can't just "move" a certified airplane into an experimental class.

[Jerry 5TJ]

About 20 years ago I saw a “Mooney” that had been “moved” to experimental amateur built status.  

The builder started with a C model wing and steel cage.  He threw out all the sheet metal and custom-built a fiberglass fuselage and new tail feathers.  

It looked a bit like a Lancair sitting on a Mooney wing and wheels.  The Johnson bar gear was retained but with sleek new gear doors.  

By the time he was done he met the 51% rule and the FAA signed it off.  

I doubt that is what the OP has in mind.  

[N201MKTurbo]

8 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

Your bringing back memories.....

I rebuilt a 1968 F model that had sat in  a hangar for 26 years in Dallas.  It had no corrosion, no damage Hx and 1960 hours total time.

Naturally it was not airworthy when purchased, in fact it was in many ways disassembled, although it still had the wing attached.  My first mistake was to try to rebuild it from a distance.  I did accomplish this, but with many headaches.  I do not know where you live or where the plane is, but I would move it close to you, in a reasonably priced hangar/work area  where you can be for a long undetermined amount of time.   Get an excellent Mooney IA to make absolutely sure that the steel cage and spars have no corrosion.  Take the wing off it to move it long distance if needed but get it near you.  Take everything apart, and rebuild from the beginning.  Once everything is gutted, clean, epoxy paint the inside of the cabin, and go from there.

You can end up with a very nice aircraft.  Take a look at my pictures on this site.  

I probably would not replace with an A1A Lycoming, but get a new counterbalance, roller bearing engine.  Mine is turbonormalized. You probably can not do this any more as parts and STC are not available.  If your remain normally aspirated, consider the top prop or MT prop.  Long range tanks makes this a awesome plane --  90 gallons gets you a long way on 11 gallons an hour ROP or 8.5 gph LOP.  Mine is 160 kts at 10,000 feet, 75% power ROP,  168 kts with everything forward at 10,000 ft, 175 kts 18,000 ft and 75% power.  

OSH --> BOS 5 hours nonstop with 1/2 fuel remaining.

The rest are choices based on equipment you want to use, interior choices, etc.  I used a DER which allowed me to make many upgrades and customizations copying what Mooney did over the years.  That was what made the project viable.  I wasted too much time and money trying to go through FAA field approvals.  The more work you can do, the better so find a Mooney savy A&P/IA to work with.  201 windshield and new cowling are worth the work since you are starting at this level.  Go one piece belly for an upgrade which is also a repair.

I would not do the RV thing.  If you want to have more freedom in rebuilding, you can always move it to the experimental class.  I did not do that as I thought it best to keep it all certified.  The Mooney is a much more substantial airplane.  Speeds are similar.  I have never flown a RV but I suspect the Mooney is a more stable instrument platform.  

John Breda

Is this your plane?

[M20F-1968]

43 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

John - maybe help the OP with a dose of financial reality. If you didn’t count in some of things you did like re-skinning to get round windows, upgrading to a turbo, etc. how much could this rebuilder expect to spend to rebuild this plane?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

There will always be unexpected aspects to a project like this one.  When thinking of unexpected items, the big one for me was that I didn't count on having two A&P Mechanics steal a significant amount of money from me.  The first thing to be sure of is that you have 100% control of the project, and that it is close by and under your direct supervision.

I had the liability of being 1200 miles away and having to manage the project from a distance (Boston to Dallas).  I was optimistic (and probably niave) enough to think that if I treated people well, they would treat me in kind and we would build a healthy working relationship.  That only worked after I separated myself from the two dishonest scoundrels (I call them other things when not writing on a public forum).  I did find a very talented sheetmetal mechanic from Gulfstream and we took everything apart (again) and worked the project from there.  My plane has been re-skinned from the baggage compartment forward.  That is why it no longer looks like an F.  That work was done in a square hangar in Dallas.   Once flyable, I got connected to the Mooney world when the plane was ferried to central Tx and we got the project finished.  Things that came up:  for example the tanks were sealed twice - once in Dallas where they were sealed sufficiently to ferry the plane, only to realize the work was not done well enough.  We then flew it out to Paul Beck where it was done the way it should be.  There was a definite learning curve in this project.

As for dollars...that question has many unknown answers. Do not think that you will do this project to get a cheaper airplane.  You are buying an education, quite literally.  

You are also doing this project so you can rebuild an existing airframe (rather than start from scratch on an RV) and turn it into a unique, pristine, one of a kind Mooney.  You will be amazed how long you will work on any aspect of this project, or an individual part, before it is the way you want it.  You will know what it means when someone says a Mooney is a hand-made airplane.  There are two fiberglass parts with compound curves in my interior that took as much a 2 years to complete because of logistics.

Expect it to cost as much as a comparable newer Mooney, if not more.  But, I have a plane that is one of a kind.  The closest to it might be an turbonormalized MSE (and then it would not have the upgraded Johnson Bar gear), and likely I would not find a turbonormalized MSE.  Russel Stallings did my pre-buy and said to me, project airplanes are great, you can make them any way you want.  That is true but you need several things, in varying quantities depending upon your situation:

1. Money

2. Time

3. mechanical skill

4. tools

5. a person from which to learn the mechanical skills you do not have

6. patience to teach yourself

7. or the personnel to do the work for you if you can not or do not have the skill, certifications, or abilities which brings us back full circle to MONEY!

You must be willing and able to jump into a part of the project with both feet and figure it out.  (I am assuming you have never done this before and I do not know what you do for a living.  You may be an accomplished mechanic, machinist and A&P all in one).

If I had been retired and was doing my project over again, I would get myself some nice hanger space I knew I could stay in indefinitely, find an A&P/IA that would work with me, (and probably a DER so you do not have to deal with FAA field approvals).  Work with your A&P under his tutelage and log time working on your airplane to earn an A&P license.  When the airplane and the A&P program are both completed, you will know your plane well, and have the certification to work on it later for annuals and maintenance.  (Of course, I would still utilize your A&P as you would be a low time A&P).  You probably will have a whole lot more fun on the project than I did chasing people to do work.  You will also satisfy any of the misgivings that you might have for not having the fun building an RV, and you will end up with a certified aircraft.

John Breda

 

[M20F-1968]

15 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Is this your plane?

That is in fact my plane.  How do come to have the picture?  

Looks quite a bit different now.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

N201MKTurbo:  There are only 3 things that are in that picture that are still in the plane:

1: The steel post that is part of the steel structural cage

2: The Johnson Bar: now re-chromed,  reinforced and powder coated

3: The flap handle

John Breda

[super6]

Jerry Pressley.  Just had a conversation, and lined up a visit. The posts above are at best confusing.

[super6]

I am a machinist and a electrician , Logic  and Termination are part of what I do for a living.I have access to aluminum and have a shear brake . Cant be that hard.

[Andy95W]

32 minutes ago, super6 said:

I have access to aluminum and have a shear brake . Cant be that hard.

Unfortunately, my opinion of this project has just been reinforced. 

Super6, I truly wish you the best of luck with your project. I hope it turns out well. 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

That is in fact my plane.  How do come to have the picture?  

Looks quite a bit different now.

John Breda

I went to Dallas to look at that plane. I thought about it and made some inquires about transporting it back to Arizona. About two weeks later I called the man and said I would buy it. 

He said “too late, a man from Boston already bought it!”

[pirate]

I say go for it and have a blast doing it. 

I think it’s awesome when people breath new life into a any old airplane. 

I purchased  my 70C as a total runout back in 95. I practically replaced every nut, bolt, rod end and all other components you can think of. 

I did have a AP / IA that worked with me during this process which I think is a must, it will save you a lot of $$$$$$.

Some Of the (best) mods I did are flap seals, cowl closure, power flow and three blade prop , all combined helped immensely with climb on hot days. 

Every where I land I always get compliments, every shop that has annualed it since my IA retired is stunned with its condtition. 

I hear many that say it’s only a C, you will never get over 40-50K out of it, I call baloney. I’ve been offered way north of that many times just by word of mouth with locals in my general area. 

I had so much fun over the years restoring my C I got very bored afterwards, I’m now pretty far into building my Vans RV-7 which is another fun build...........

 

 

 

 

[M20F-1968]

Super 6:  Post a picture of what your starting with, we may be able to add comments.

John Breda

[Frank B.]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is not really a viable option. It would limit the airplane to solo, day VFR, and limited range. Much like flying it around on a Ferry permit. You can't just "move" a certified airplane into an experimental class.

If you remember back in the early to mid 90’s when McCauley was selling the 3 blade prop ... what was it called ... Black Max or something like that ... they were putting them on Mooneys and making them Experimental - Research & Development. Look at N212WD, which began life as a M20F N3478N before The Mod Squad and McCauley got ahold of it. “It was a Trophy conversion” It has been registered as Experimental since the mid 90’s. If you pull the limitations on the plane it is restricted to 200 NM from Dayton, OH and is also limited To daytime VFR flight and single pilot operation. It was recently advertised on Controller and supposedly sold for close to 80K. I bet the new owner will be surprised if he / she runs a title search. But it does show up on the FAA data base as Experimental - R&D.