WTB TKS Ovation or Bravo

[LANCECASPER]

True, but other airplanes use a Lycoming TSIO-540 variant. The TSIO-540-J2BD is put in Machen Bonanzas, Cessna Turbostream 310s and Cessna Javelin P210s, each at 350 HP.

The cylinders are different, the case is different, the crank and cam are different. The only thing the same is the 540 cubic inches.

The closest cousin is the TIO540AE2A in the Piper Mirage


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[Ragsf15e]

Guys, couple questions I have that might help the OP too... what kind of useful load, speed, and cruise fuel burn might you expect from a fiki O2, Bravo, or 252?

Are the seating and passenger areas really the same size as the “mid bodies”?!  So my F has same seating room as an O2?

[Awful_Charlie]

Bravo owner/operator, pre G1000 and Moritz, late the the scene!

My useful is just shy of 1000lbs, with FIKI (empty) and LRT but no air conditioning. Full tanks (130USG) means it is tight even for two skinny's, but can make an additional 35lbs by leaving the rear seats in the hangar. I have a long term plan to put the aircraft on a diet (eg MT 4 blade prop, getting rid of the vacuum) but this is an expensive alternative to a personal diet and/or the gym!

As fuel tends to be expensive this side of the Atlantic, my normal cruise is in the 13USG/hr area (30" 2200RPM, LOP) for around 160-180KTAS depending on altitude, with the option to turn it up if the headwind is nasty (or even turn it down a bit for those rare tailwinds) - that means with climb fuel and a reserve you can have 8+ hour endurance (only done that once!), but if useful allows, the LRT can be handy to tanker cheap gas.

I did the engine exchange last year at 2200 hours, at which time I had changed one cylinder (exhaust valve) and a previous owner had done one too. Previous owner burnt a series of turbos in quick succession, but the logs don't reveal the whole story, so I can't really make an accurate cause for any of them other than one which suffered "Ice damage" - there is an SI on the Mooney website about a mod to the intake box for that. Lycoming reman cost was around 60k, then mounts, hoses, oil cooler, governor o/h, labour etc incorporated with an annual added another 15k or so (and over here, a crazy amount of tax that doen't help any of it work any better!). Bear in mind a Lycoming exchange will include an exhaust up to and including the turbo - not all overhauls will include all of that, and some of the exhaust parts are frightening expensive.

If you spend much time over 10,000' would recommend you look at your oxygen fill options - I rent a big cylinder for ~70USD/year, for which a fill is another 70USD or so - the rental does about 4 complete aircraft fills from empty, but I normally top off when the aircraft gets down to around 1000PSI. Oxysaver cannulas roughly double the POH endurance. If you don't like this and your handy FBO/maintenance org changes arms and legs for a fill you might want to consider the electronic metering devices, but the price of them will buy a shed load of gas, or a frigging hangar load of oxygen.

If you find a G1000 model, check the WAAS status, if it's Moritz equipped consider what to do when one fails. As you're looking FIKI, do make sure all the panels are working (they are expensive to get, difficult to change, and spares are made to order - slowly!

For maintenance, mags can be a PITA - I keep a spare pair ready to drop in, the oil changes get to be a drag, aided by putting a hose extension on the drain so it can be done without removing the lower cowl, no avionic tech particularly likes a Mooney due to the limited space behind the panel (hint - get whatever you can installed in the bay behind the baggage area) Many people seem to be eating through batteries, but I seem to get several years out of them - YMMV etc. Remember there are two of them in a long body.

Years ago I changed from an Arrow as when I relocated I *needed* FIKI (my minimum level for IFR departure is 8000') - so far the aircraft capability has not been a reason to cancel any flight (have had to cancel a couple due to inch+ think ice on the destination runway, and at least one due to too much snow on my home base, but in both these cases there wasn't really *any* GA option). Alternatives other than the Bo options in my book would be PA46 for more space (and possibly pressurisation), PA32 for load carrying but less speed, and after that you are into the twin or turbine market

I still believe it is one of the most capable single piston available sub 200k - and love it!

[b2002]

OK I’m back and appreciate all the info everyone has provided.  It’s a shame there aren’t more of these airplanes in existence in my price range.

Seems like a TN 300hp 550 with a FIKI Bravo airframe and an STC gw increase would be unbeatable.  But I digress...

Your input and my research has moved the needle toward a Bravo but still need to look at the Encore option.

I failed to mention that another plane I was looking at was the Glasair III.  But then practicality set in as usual.

Edited February 15, 2019 by b2002

[Niko182]

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29094029/2004-mooney-m20r-ovation2-dx

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29120483/1990-mooney-m20m-tls

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29307755/2000-mooney-m20r-ovation2

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29619005/1998-mooney-m20m-bravo

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/26966469/1990-mooney-m20m-bravo

 

These all looked like decent options. The first ovation having a fiki and a 950lbs useful load, would be my pick. If youre leaning to the bravo, the second link is a bravo with a nice panel, mid time engine, nice exterior and interior, and FIKI, so for a bravo, thats where id be leaning.

Id stay away from the g1000 planes personally unless they have waas and a gfc700. These go for around 300k so theyre out of your budget. 

[b2002]

Thank you.

[carusoam]

Our last MSer to go towards something similar to a Glassair... just sold his Rocket. And went Lanceair IVPT...

Sooner Or later you have to make a decision...

Better to run through all the options now...

It is incredibly hard to select an aircraft without being able to fly it regularly....

A decade of Mooney flying makes it much easier to select the next Mooney.... M20C to M20R was an easy choice... they fly the same except all the M20R numbers are bigger...

Start with the Mooney,  build the other plane in your spare time... it may take decades...

Best regards,

-a-

[b2002]

Thank you to all who responded.  Hate to say it but I have discovered that a Mooney is not in the cards for me after flying in one.  Just not my cup of tea, not a good fit.  I wanted it to work, FIKI and all, but no dice.

So I will continue my search for an airplane that will be a better fit for me.  From this experience I will offer one piece of advice to others who may be considering buying an airplane of a type that you haven't flown before:  go fly it or one like it before getting too far into the buying process.  Could save you time and money.

Thanks again.

Edited February 23, 2019 by b2002
Grammar

[carusoam]

What did you finally decide on b2002?

best regards,

-a-

[b2002]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

What did you finally decide on b2002?

best regards,

-a-

Nothing yet. I now have to continue to learn about and look for other airplanes.  Might end up in the homebuilt area.

[M20F]

For your price range and mission I would be looking at 210’s personally.  

[b2002]

Yeah a 210 is worth looking at.  Thanks.

[ArtVandelay]

Thank you to all who responded.  Hate to say it but I have discovered that a Mooney is not in the cards for me after flying in one.  Just not my cup of tea, not a good fit.  I wanted it to work, FIKI and all, but no dice.

By good fit, is that literally or figuratively?


Tom

[b2002]

22 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

By good fit, is that literally or figuratively?


Tom

Both but mostly figuratively.

[smccray]

Take a look at a beech debonair. If you buy one with the IO470 K (225 HP) engine it will be very similar in performance and price to a J.  The 6 cylinder engine will likely be a little more expensive to own per hour than the 4 cylinder lycoming, but it would be within spitting distance.

Edit- whoops- ovation/bravo not J. I’d take a look at a 210. If you want FIKI none of the 4 seat bonanzas are eligible for FIKI.

Edited February 23, 2019 by smccray

[Davidv]

On 1/30/2019 at 9:05 AM, b2002 said:

Hello everyone, I'm a new member in the Philly area.  I've been looking for an airplane for several months, mainly targeting turbonormalized IO 550 Bonanzas.  Now I've discovered that a Mooney may actually be a better fit.  My many years of GA flying a long time ago didn't include any Mooneys so they weren't on my radar initially.

I'd like to buy a clean cross-country all-weather airplane preferably from an individual here on the forum rather than a dealer.  My budget is 150-200k, possibly a little higher for the right machine.  The O2 is first choice though an early O3 or a Bravo might work too.  Factory FIKI is highly preferred vs inadvertent.

Thanks

I would check out the O2 for sale in Indiana for 184k on controller.  Seems to have everything you want and on the surface looks like a clean plane (I haven’t seen the logs).

[b2002]

16 hours ago, Davidv said:

I would check out the O2 for sale in Indiana for 184k on controller.  Seems to have everything you want and on the surface looks like a clean plane (I haven’t seen the logs).

Actually I was interested in that one before I discovered I'm not a Mooney person.

I knew of a great mechanic right on the field where the airplane is located and was considering scheduling a prebuy.  Then the broker began the high pressure techniques (must sign a 10-day limit purchase agreement, brought up their carrying charges, etc).  That sales technique doesn't work with me so I moved on.

BTW that experience was the opposite of the service and consult I've received from a broker who specializes in Bonanzas, Neal Schwartz.  He's on BT and has sold a Mooney or two along the way.  I didn't buy an airplane through him only because what I wanted wasn't available at the time.

[Davidv]

Good to know, there’s usually a reason why a good airplane at a seemingly good price is not selling... I was about to buy an ovation from another broker that wasn’t as well equipped and a little older for a little less money.  I got outbid by someone who wanted to pay full price and waive the pre-buy.  No thanks.  That’s why I thought this one would go so quickly.

[b2002]

22 hours ago, smccray said:

Take a look at a beech debonair. If you buy one with the IO470 K (225 HP) engine it will be very similar in performance and price to a J.  The 6 cylinder engine will likely be a little more expensive to own per hour than the 4 cylinder lycoming, but it would be within spitting distance.

Edit- whoops- ovation/bravo not J. I’d take a look at a 210. If you want FIKI none of the 4 seat bonanzas are eligible for FIKI.

Yep, bonanzas and debonairs are still in the running.  Since I'm not getting a Mooney, the FIKI is likely going away.

[Sam Muncy]

I am looking at Mooney's right now.  Doing a prebuy on an '95 Ovation.  Can I ask specifically what "drove" you away?  Just trying to do my homework. 

[b2002]

33 minutes ago, Sam Muncy said:

I am looking at Mooney's right now.  Doing a prebuy on an '95 Ovation.  Can I ask specifically what "drove" you away?  Just trying to do my homework. 

In a nutshell, personal preference.

I have several thousand hours in GA aircraft, many types, trainers through MU-2s, but had never sat in a Mooney.  I realize many folks love their Mooneys and that is great.  For me I didn't like the way I sat in it, the forward visibility, the handling, and the way it took off and landed.  Probably some of the exact things people on this forum like about their planes.

I could have made it work but I want to really enjoy flying my airplane and for me the Mooney didn't do it.

So, it is important to try an airplane on for size to be sure it is a good fit (literaly and figuratively) before getting too far into the buying process.  All the good specs, maintenance history, etc. don't really matter if you won't be happy flying it (if one cares about that).

Don't mean to step on anybody's toes here, you've all been great.

Good luck with your purchase.

[neilpilot]

5 minutes ago, b2002 said:

I have several thousand hours in GA aircraft, many types, trainers through MU-2s, but had never sat in a Mooney.  I realize many folks love their Mooneys and that is great.  For me I didn't like the way I sat in it, the forward visibility, the handling, and the way it took off and landed.

Why do I find that confusing?

[ArtVandelay]

The long bodies have a higher panel, a more of submarine effect, at least it looks that way from pictures, I’ve never sat in one.
The sports car sitting is not for everyone.


Tom

[b2002]

4 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

Why do I find that confusing?

I don't know.

I was close to buying one without ever flying one.  Once I did, I found I didn't like it.  That's it.

[b2002]

3 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The long bodies have a higher panel, a more of submarine effect, at least it looks that way from pictures, I’ve never sat in one.
The sports car sitting is not for everyone.


Tom

Exactly.  I didn't mind the sports car seating more the vis issues along with the other things.

It's just personal preference.  Mooneys are great airplanes.