Parking Brake Locked Up in Flight??

[Andy95W]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:38 PM, Skates97 said:

 

 I checked the invoice for the part number from Aircraft Spruce for the tubes with the 90 degree bend, apparently the only ones they sell. It is the Goodyears, Part #06-05305.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/gy_tires3.php

Richard- @Skates97- how are the 90° tubes doing?  Even though they're not the Michelin Airstop, are they holding air well?  Easier to get the air gauge on?

[Jim Peace]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:38 PM, Skates97 said:

I did not stop and set the brake and do a full run-up, I only used the toe brakes for a quick mag check prior to departure. Had I actually done a full run-up, setting the parking brake as normal, I should have noticed that something was wrong

Nice follow up......

Suggestion:  In light airplanes all the way up the chain to wide body jets, when you do an exterior preflight check or runup etc, always do the same thing every single time, no exceptions.  It is too confusing to the brain to do it any other way and it may aid in catching something wrong.  

ATP thoughts only, not a mechanic

[Skates97]

10 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Nice follow up......

Suggestion:  In light airplanes all the way up the chain to wide body jets, when you do an exterior preflight check or runup etc, always do the same thing every single time, no exceptions.  It is too confusing to the brain to do it any other way and it may aid in catching something wrong.  

ATP thoughts only, not a mechanic

Good suggestion, I suppose the time to do a full run up does not take that much longer. I do think it would have saved me here, when I would have tried to set the parking brake I would have seen that the cable was froze up.

I wonder how many how many do a full run up when just making a fuel stop. 

20 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Richard- @Skates97- how are the 90° tubes doing?  Even though they're not the Michelin Airstop, are they holding air well?  Easier to get the air gauge on?

So far so good, haven't had any pressure lost, but I think it is too soon to know? Previously I would add maybe a pound of pressure every 3-4 months. It's very easy to get a gauge on to check the pressure. My previous tubes were 90 degree stems so I have nothing to compare it to. 

A little more follow up. I got one of those cable lube attachments that someone linked earlier in the thread. I was able to get some up in the cable from the end by the value. After letting that sit for a while, with the cable unhooked from the valve I was then able to pull the cable out quite a bit, it was bone dry. Lube was sprayed into the cable housing from the knob size and then the cable worked back and forth. After a few applications the cable operates very smoothly. After finding out how it should feel the heater and vent cables have been lubed as well. 

[Jim Peace]

24 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I wonder how many how many do a full run up when just making a fuel stop. 

probably not many....GA has a reputation for a reason.

Whether it's your first flight of the day or the 4th leg the exterior preflight and runup/before takeoff items should be identical and not rushed.

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dcafc8d5-cf72-4ce0-ac7e-d1b83b5ab1ce

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

probably not many....GA has a reputation for a reason.

Whether it's your first flight of the day or the 4th leg the exterior preflight and runup/before takeoff items should be identical and not rushed.

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dcafc8d5-cf72-4ce0-ac7e-d1b83b5ab1ce

I'll be a dissenting voice.  I do a walk around after a fueling up, I am especially aware of the engine compartment.  I almost never do full 1700 rpm run ups.  I think they do little more then suck crap into the prop.  I do a continuity check on ignition, throttle and prop all of which can be completed during taxi.  The only time I'm on throttle and brakes at the same time is while going to full throttle prior to brake release when departing a short field.  My plane has had three ignition related failures over the last decade, one mag related and two plug related...all of them passed the standard run-up, all of them were caught with the either engine monitor (plug) or by the seat of my pants (mag) and verified with the engine monitor. If you don't have one, get an engine monitor and include it in your scan during all phases of flight.  Whether the first or fifth flight of the day, it will tell you far more than sand blasting your prop in the run up area. 

[Jim Peace]

26 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I almost never do full 1700 rpm run ups.

 

[gsxrpilot]

I'm with @Shadrach. I'll do a bit of a run-up for the first flight of the day.

[mike_elliott]

Before taking a runway, I will do a full power runup to make sure all plugs are firing and the engine is developing TO power. 1st or 15th flight of the day. You dont want to not have full power on takeoff, i know.

 

[Shadrach]

48 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

 

Well put!  I’ll have to reconsider my SOP based on the wisdom and reasonable points articulated above! I bet you have excellent meme skills as well! 

[Shadrach]

34 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Before taking a runway, I will do a full power runup to make sure all plugs are firing and the engine is developing TO power. 1st or 15th flight of the day. You dont want to not have full power on takeoff, i know.

 

Sure, as I said the only runups I do are full power when I’m launching out of short strip. However, 80% of my takeoffs are off 5000 runways or more. That gives plenty of room to verify full power, green pressures and temps. I have an alarm that flashes when an EGT is above 1600. My monitor will tell me if/when there is an ignition or fuel flow issue during departure. A 1700 rpm run up only guarantees that the engine is capable of a 1700rpm run up. Anyone whose had a plug that only misfires at high rpm can attest to this. The 1700 run up is not a very useful tool these days. It was the best available when we had lousy instrumentation and single probe non numerical analog EGT readouts. Times and technology have changed. Verify control continuity yes, but monitor the engine in real time. My failed mag had a coil that would short to the case, but only above 2200rpm.  Another thing that makes me cringe is the folks that feel compelled to do three prop pulls. Can anyone who does this tell me why you do it? You know the prop controls work, why do several more? Do you turn lights on and off three times when you enter a dark room?

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Another thing that makes me cringe is the folks that feel compelled to do three prop pulls. Can anyone who does this tell me why you do it? You know the prop controls work, why do several more? Do you turn lights on and off three times when you enter a dark room?

I've never understood this one either. 

[Hank]

46 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Before taking a runway, I will do a full power runup to make sure all plugs are firing and the engine is developing TO power. 1st or 15th flight of the day. You dont want to not have full power on takeoff, i know.

 

I do a standard runup every time I start the engine.

[RLCarter]

Years ago (40ish) I asked about cycling the prop, 1st to watch the tach, 2nd to watch the oil pressure and the last to watch the manifold pressure

[gsxrpilot]

6 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Years ago (40ish) I asked about cycling the prop, 1st to watch the tach, 2nd to watch the oil pressure and the last to watch the manifold pressure

Ok, makes sense. With my EDM-900 I can see all three at the same time. So one pull should be sufficient.

[Marauder]

I’m in the other camp. I always do a run up prior to any takeoff after a shutdown. Why? I always looked at it as my last chance to catch a problem. And in the 28 years I’ve owned my plane and doing these extra run ups, I’ve had a part of the exhaust blow off, had a few fouled plugs and found a failed prop control. Could I have discovered these during the takeoff, sure. But is that the time and place to find it?


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[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Years ago (40ish) I asked about cycling the prop, 1st to watch the tach, 2nd to watch the oil pressure and the last to watch the manifold pressure

Ok, so what does any of that tell you about the condition of the ignition system and fuel delivery? Or the general engine health.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

7 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I’m in the other camp. I always do a run up prior to any takeoff after a shutdown. Why? I always looked at it as my last chance to catch a problem. And in the 28 years I’ve owned my plane and doing these extra run ups, I’ve had a part of the exhaust blow off, had a few fouled plugs and found a failed prop control. Could I have discovered these during the takeoff, sure. But is that the time and place to find it?


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I do a mag check in flight and quick ignition off at shutdown,

[carusoam]

I must have had the same flight training as RLC.

It was at a CPC. Cessna Pilot Center...

Three pulls to prove three instruments were working... where one pull would work...

The only rpm control issue I found during the run-up was the lost seal at the front of the crank, leaking oil internally....

pulling the knob didn’t do a thing ten tries later...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

I can watch RPM and MP together, those big dials are right above each other. Now if I had to watch for little LCD numbers to change, it would be different . . . . I manage to get by with two pulls most times, one if it was just a quick stop for fuel or a passenger.

When it's really cold out, especially if I haven't flown recently, the response will be very sluggish on the first pull, so I pull again to get fresh, warm oil in the hub and a normal response.

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Another thing that makes me cringe is the folks that feel compelled to do three prop pulls. Can anyone who does this tell me why you do it? You know the prop controls work, why do several more? Do you turn lights on and off three times when you enter a dark room?

I do it for this reason:

 

[Steve_B]

I miss George.  

I was taught the same as others, 3 pulls for rpm,  MP, OP but after doing some research, I only do one except when the outside temp is really cold so then it's 2-3 to get some warm oil through the prop. Not sure if that's needed but that's what I do.

As for the runup, I will do one only if the engine was shut down. Abbreviated preflight/walkaround for fuel stops, etc., full preflight of the plane leaves my sight.

-Steve

[Shadrach]

On 12/29/2018 at 11:33 PM, carusoam said:

I must have had the same flight training as RLC.

It was at a CPC. Cessna Pilot Center...

Three pulls to prove three instruments were working... where one pull would work...

The only rpm control issue I found during the run-up was the lost seal at the front of the crank, leaking oil internally....

pulling the knob didn’t do a thing ten tries later...

Best regards,

-a-

I should hope that the operation of those instruments is verified long before the run up.

Manifold pressure - An easy way to check manifold pressure without abusing your prop is to listen to the AWOS/ASOS before start up ( if neither is available set altimeter to field elevation and use the number in the kollsman window). Look at your MP gauge and compare that to the altimeter setting. That will tell you far more about the accuracy of the instrument than the slight bump in manifold pressure caused by an RPM reduction. If it registers near ambient and then falls to normal idle levels after the engine is started, you’ve learned about all you can about the health of the instrument from the cockpit.

Tachometer - If you’ve managed to taxi to the run up area and you’re still not sure that your tachometer is working...You may have bigger problems.

Oil pressure - See tachometer explanation. 

 I’m sorry to have hijacked Richard’s thread. This will be my last post on the hijack topic. I really don’t care how anybody runs up or doesn’t run up their airplane. It’s my hope that people are thoughtful in their approach to preflight and safety. I don’t think rote procedure based on what your great granddaddy did in 1952 is always the best approach. I didn’t pop out of the womb with the notion that a 1700 RPM run up was sub optimal. I was taught to do so just like the rest of you and I did it for years, just like the rest of you. As I learned more about engines and how to read engine monitors, I decided to stop doing something that provided me no utility. Those of you who wish to continue doing so, or who don’t feel an engine monitor is necessary, have at it.

I’ve been around airplanes my whole life. I can remember the 70s (barely) and 80s, when every recip pilot that I saw would turn the prop through three or four times by hand just to “distribute the oil prior to start up”.   If we had had internet forums back then, I’m sure that anybody advocating starting an engine without “turning it through” would’ve been labeled a heretic by a certain subset. Hell, I bet there would’ve been those that would’ve staked their engine’s life on a four blade turn through (just to make sure that all the valves get actuated)  or some other nonsense. I think pilots are interesting case study. They are methodical, logical and superstitious.  It makes for some fascinating conversations.  Be careful out there folks!

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Shadrach

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Years ago (40ish) I asked about cycling the prop, 1st to watch the tach, 2nd to watch the oil pressure and the last to watch the manifold pressure

I think I do it to circulate warm oil through the hub.   If you tell me that warm oil is already circulating then I will have learned something new.

 

[Jim Peace]

13 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I think I do it to circulate warm oil through the hub.   If you tell me that warm oil is already circulating then I will have learned something new.

 

Thats why I do it....It seems on the second or even the third cycle it cycles a heck of a lot quicker....every time

[Jim Peace]

2 hours ago, Steve_B said:

I miss George.  

He was great.  I used to fly him a lot in the 90's to his events in Lear jets.  Always sent the limo back to the airport for us to attend the show and then arranged for us to get back early enough to get the plane ready to head out....