Navi Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: I thought the 230 was already certified or am i mossing something Ummm... maybe you are... This thread is almost exclusively about the TT/BK AC 100 , not the 230 Nav Quote
MBDiagMan Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/29/2021 at 5:07 AM, Navi said: Much more.. Lets take off the pilot hat, put on a business hat for a minute. The STC for the Mooney, was NOT COMPLETE at the time of SALE of the company ASSETS. The Mooney STC did not EXIST as an ASSET. (And still does not) Call it "work in progress" if you want, but it DID NOT EXIST as a transferrable ASSET (STC), so there was nothing that could be "purchased" by BK. BK purchased all the "ASSETS" of TT, but the Mooney STC was not awarded, so it did not exist. The project died on the vine. Except for Andrew, the players all changed, parts suppliers changed (TT made a lot of parts "in house" ) and priorities changed, especially with Covid, company survival probably went to the top. And as posted above, probably a different FAA office was another hurdle. Name plate change? BK did not care. BK sold MANY APs with the TT nameplate still on the units until all stock was used up and new ones were made. BK was desperate for parts to make up complete shipments. Remember, through all of this, Piper and Cessna pilots continue to lay down money for this AP, it was December last year when shipments started to catch up with orders. Pilot hat back on, business hat back on the (retired) business shelf. YMMV. Nav Thanks for the viewpoint Navi! It covers the problems quite thoroughly that came about due to the sale of the company. The problem remains though, what about the almost three year run of false alarms since that time? Being retired from a decades long career in the automation software industry I feel I have a good understanding of both technical and business challenges to include perception by customers and the industry. Being open and forthright with customers regarding both the good, the bad AND the ugly, goes a long way toward building a loyal following. ”Perception is reality.” After almost three years of seeing false hopes, perception is formed. Can’t help it. Quote
Hank Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/29/2021 at 5:07 AM, Navi said: Much more.. Lets take off the pilot hat, put on a business hat for a minute. The STC for the Mooney, was NOT COMPLETE at the time of SALE of the company ASSETS. The Mooney STC did not EXIST as an ASSET. (And still does not) Call it "work in progress" if you want, but it DID NOT EXIST as a transferrable ASSET (STC), so there was nothing that could be "purchased" by BK. BK purchased all the "ASSETS" of TT, but the Mooney STC was not awarded, so it did not exist. Did the change in ownership make the flight test reports invalid? Do airplanes with the autopilot installed after BK bought it fly differently than those when TT was its own company? Did those many signed evaluations, flight test reports, etc., become worthless when the name signing the paychecks of the pilots and engineers who wrote the reports changed? Or maybe the test pilot is no longer with BK, so nothing he ever did can be used anymore? C'mon, I'm in medical manufacturing, regulated under a different CFR. Changes in ownership happen all the time, and investigations don't restart from the beginning, nor do products in development. And trust me, medical devices have the potential to create much more harm than anything made to install on a general aviation plane. Right now, we manufacture 70,000 devices every day, 365 days a year. If they are bad, many more people will be harmed than if BK messed up something in an autopilot when extending its installation to Mooneys . . . . 1 Quote
hammdo Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 Noticed this about a different autopilot (in red print): https://www.trioavionics.com/frequent_questions.htm https://www.trioavionics.com/ProPilot.htm My GNC355 is compatible too... EFIS/GPS support... https://www.trioavionics.com/Trio Autopilot Compatibility Chart.pdf Tryin to find out if Mooneys are going to be supported by their STC... just stirring up the bees nest a bit ;o) -Don Quote
Oldguy Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: So dumb question. But why cant you just pull put the kap150 and if you have an aspen pr similar flight director just put in a 230. After all they are attitude based autopilots so if the thing telling it the attitude has a FD surely you can go 230. I cant believe the kap and the kfc use different servos Same servos and many other parts. But papa FAA says says they are not included in the STC, therefore no bueno. Hilariously, the KFC and KAP are approved for our Mooneys under the same STC. But not for the KFC 230. Go figure. 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted July 31, 2021 Report Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/31/2021 at 2:37 PM, Oldguy said: Same servos and many other parts. But papa FAA says says they are not included in the STC, therefore no bueno. Hilariously, the KFC and KAP are approved for our Mooneys under the same STC. But not for the KFC 230. Go figure. Because no one who is currently at Bendix King knows the difference between a KFC150 and a KAP 150 . . . seriously I had to explain the differences to them a few years ago at Oshkosh when i was at their display and an owner asked about the KAP 150. And it's not even their fault, they weren't there back then. Even management wasn't there so there is no link to the past. That knowledge base at the company has disappeared and is rapidly disappearing in the field as techs who were familiar are retiring. Thankfully we have guys like @Jake@BevanAviation and @Bob Weber to fill that gap. 4 Quote
Sandman993 Posted August 1, 2021 Report Posted August 1, 2021 8 hours ago, hammdo said: Noticed this about a different autopilot (in red print): https://www.trioavionics.com/frequent_questions.htm https://www.trioavionics.com/ProPilot.htm My GNC355 is compatible too... EFIS/GPS support... https://www.trioavionics.com/Trio Autopilot Compatibility Chart.pdf Tryin to find out if Mooneys are going to be supported by their STC... just stirring up the bees nest a bit ;o) -Don Almost makes me cry… we would have had this autopilot by now, probably two years ago. We practicality flogged this guy. He called me and said the Mooney group was too much for him. I begged him to move forward, but he bugged out. Wish he’d come back. Trio would fix all this. 1 Quote
Bob Weber Posted August 3, 2021 Report Posted August 3, 2021 ”Perception is reality.” After almost three years of seeing false hopes, perception is formed. I've been waiting since the early '90's I watched this industry transform from KN 74's, to KNS 80's, KLN 88's, then the 90 came and I saw what I thought was the sunrise. I was so proud to present it as the primary navigator in this Collins STC for the 441's, you would not believe the reaction from the Collins rep Joe Dominguez when he oversaw our project, literally blown away by my work, but sickened by the looks of that navigator... Then they vomited the kln 89, and much more pathetically followed up with the ole '94. Then, so many grandiose "visions" of the new navigator that never materialized. All the while I watched Garmin literally stand this industry on it's ear and completely dominate the market in literally every aspect. Gary and Min broke from King Radio Corp. in 1989 and began doing things their former employers wouldn't allow them to do. I put the very first Garmin GPS in a 441 Cessna, a GPS 100AVD, and have never looked away since. In today's world of avionics, we are all controlled by software that resides in literally every component of our modern suites. Whether it be multiple vendors with multiple cycle intervals and protocols, or a single manufacture with what one would hope to be, and for the most part is, a coordinated application to each of the effected components. Watching a competent engineering team struggle for days to get software to cooperate between different manufacturers equipment was far worse than matching analog signals to interface properly back in "my day" I also built a custom dash for my offshore boat for the two of them... 4 Quote
Utah20Gflyer Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 Aircraft spruce just listed the Aerocruz100 autopilot on their website for the Mooney. In the text of the ad it does say pending approval but maybe something is happening? Is there any history of product becoming available shortly after listing? 1 Quote
Navi Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said: Aircraft spruce just listed the Aerocruz100 autopilot on their website for the Mooney. In the text of the ad it does say pending approval but maybe something is happening? Is there any history of product becoming available shortly after listing? I have reason to believe it IS happening..... N Quote
cliffy Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 "I was told" at OSH after inquiring and coming back the next day to get the answer that it would be ALL Mooneys back to the B but not the wood wing. We'll see Quote
hammdo Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 Does say B- on up on the page... -Don Quote
carusoam Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 Two versions of aerocruze… Aerocruze 230…. M20J and newer… https://www.bendixking.com/en/about-us/blogs/2019/11/aerocruze-230-autopilot Aerocruze 100… no Mooneys mentioned…. https://www.bendixking.com/en/products/ai/autopilots-and-indicators/aerocruze-100 Just when I started to think BK might sell something… Aircaft Spruce has better up to date details than BK has on their own site… -a- Quote
carusoam Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 Anyone know this guy? BK’s hired gun… -a- Chad Christopher Digital Marketing Expert Chad Christopher is a Digital Marketing Expert working with BendixKing. Serving over a dozen clients in both Aerospace and Healthcare industries, his private firm Plateau Creative delivers the latest information in both Digital Trends and Content Marketing. Chad is also a student pilot working on his PPL. Quote
Navi Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 2 hours ago, hammdo said: Does say B- on up on the page... -Don This is what I received from Andrew a while ago... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The plan is to include the B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, M, R, S, TN, U, and V models. Andrew Barker From: Dave & Barb Gamblin Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:42 PM To: Barker, Andrew Subject: [External] Greetings! Hi Andrew! Have a question from the Mooney group I hope you can help with !?. The application for the Mooney STC.. Will / does It include the early 1962 thru 64 models M20B, C, D, E. ? One guy suggested he could make a model “D” available to BK if they needed it to include it.. J Cheers! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Quote
cliffy Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, 59Moonster said: No love for the wood wing M20A NAW Campfire material :-) 2 Quote
59Moonster Posted August 18, 2021 Report Posted August 18, 2021 It's okay. I don't want to fly any safer than I already am. /end sarcasm Quote
EricJ Posted August 27, 2021 Report Posted August 27, 2021 Does anybody know, or know how to find out, whether the Aerocruze 100 for the Mooney uses cable (King style) or pushrod (Century or S-Tec style) servos? I'm noodling about installing one of these and another issue might be how to maintain the electric trim function if I ditch the Century amplifier. Quote
Jesse Saint Posted August 27, 2021 Report Posted August 27, 2021 All of the other TruTrak installations use arms and pushrods except the roll servo on the PA-32’s, which uses a capstan. I would expect arms and pushrods to cable clamps, but have no inside knowledge. 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted September 3, 2021 Report Posted September 3, 2021 Email this morning from GCA: Quote
EricJ Posted September 3, 2021 Report Posted September 3, 2021 That's $100 less than at spruce. The installation manual shows a separate box for automatic/electric trim. I'm not seeing it as an option yet on either site but I hope it is available once these come out. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted September 3, 2021 Report Posted September 3, 2021 That's $100 less than at spruce. The installation manual shows a separate box for automatic/electric trim. I'm not seeing it as an option yet on either site but I hope it is available once these come out. I think that’s not an option with certified version. 1 Quote
Hank Posted September 3, 2021 Report Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, EricJ said: That's $100 less than at spruce. The installation manual shows a separate box for automatic/electric trim. I'm not seeing it as an option yet on either site but I hope it is available once these come out. I dunno about your J, but my C doesn't have electric trim, just the manual wheel on my seat. Quote
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