bob865 Posted December 6, 2021 Report Share Posted December 6, 2021 On 12/4/2021 at 6:11 PM, nosky2high said: …and it’s December. Who’s getting a TruTrak/Aerocruz for Christmas? Which Christmas? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 6, 2021 Report Share Posted December 6, 2021 They all may have decided that there just isn't enough money involved in legacy Mooneys to make it profitable I'm now holding out for Dynon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman993 Posted December 6, 2021 Report Share Posted December 6, 2021 45 minutes ago, cliffy said: They all may have decided that there just isn't enough money involved in legacy Mooneys to make it profitable I'm now holding out for Dynon There’s a lot of legacy Mooneys out there. Still a lot with old radios. I’m simply not going to spend 25k for an autopilot from G. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 6, 2021 Report Share Posted December 6, 2021 Likewise BUT how many "out there' ARE WILLING to invest in ANY autopilot? 10% or 20% of the fleet? What's the fleet size out there right now and multiply out the number of "possibilities" that they have to gamble on for actual sales 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted December 6, 2021 Report Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, cliffy said: They all may have decided that there just isn't enough money involved in legacy Mooneys to make it profitable I'm now holding out for Dynon In BK' s case. it has all been spent... Just waiting on the FAA now.... N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, cliffy said: Likewise BUT how many "out there' ARE WILLING to invest in ANY autopilot? 10% or 20% of the fleet? What's the fleet size out there right now and multiply out the number of "possibilities" that they have to gamble on for actual sales Yes, you are referring to people like me. I have a working PC that is reliable and easy to maintain. While I would love to have a modern autopilot that does "everything", I would be crazy to invest half the value of my plane into a G, or even Trio autopilot (installed total). The cost delta just doesn't compute out for me. Maybe someone just needs to produce new Brittain autopilot parts! Edited December 7, 2021 by Mooneymite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 I’m sure the FAA’s inability to approve a reasonably priced AP is driving some owners to install experimental versions. I have seen a few examples around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 No way I'd pay to replace my STEC30 with alt hold. While it doesn't have all the 'cool kid' toys, it does everything I want. I'm even willing to pay to fix it if it breaks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMooney Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 Trutrak has a finite window for me, once my hsi or ai breaks i'm going gfc500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Browncbr1 said: I’m sure the FAA’s inability to approve a reasonably priced AP is driving some owners to install experimental versions. I have seen a few examples around. Are people getting field approvals or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 perhaps this be a solution. until Dynon and tru-trak,trio come out with theirs https://www.portapilot.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAhreNBhAYEiwAFGGKPFpTVoYhDGRBu4qOhFh3liwJOFeeS4Pj9uxOibbwGT0n5BSjL0ktRxoCM30QAvD_BwE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, jamesm said: perhaps this be a solution. until Dynon and tru-trak,trio come out with theirs https://www.portapilot.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAhreNBhAYEiwAFGGKPFpTVoYhDGRBu4qOhFh3liwJOFeeS4Pj9uxOibbwGT0n5BSjL0ktRxoCM30QAvD_BwE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 With the thousands of A/Ps installed in experimentals that seemingly don't have any issues IF the FAA was really interested in safety they would find a way to approve a TT or Trio type without all the expensive STC BS. The greatest safety upgrade any older bug smasher could have would be an A/P even if it was just track left and right and altitude hold with a one button push for straight and level. ] THAT would save lives very year. PROVE ME WRONG! They are needlessly killing people with their head in the sand, lock step of old approval theories. IT WOULD SAVE LIVES EVERY YEAR The risk is less with an experimental AP approval than the risk to not having one for most of the legacy fleet. Think of the lives they could save if they allowed a $5000 all in AP in small airplanes. Make it applicable to the same limits one has with Basic Med as far as type of airplanes. That takes in the vast majority of the fleet. Limit it to straight and level (GPS tracking) and no approaches authorized until a substantial track record for the fleet has been established if they want but - find a way. Its total lunacy the way it is. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Navi said: In BK' s case. it has all been spent... Just waiting on the FAA now.... N Heard that 3 years ago along with "90 days and it'll be approved" from them at OSH. Still 1238+ days on this thread! We have fought and won wars in less time. We designed and delivered the SR-71 in 185 days from concept to flight and that was 50 years ago and it still holds all the world records And all we are looking for is an "APPROVAL" to use something. NOT reinvent the wheel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 1 hour ago, EricJ said: Are people getting field approvals or something? No just pirate it in and slide it past your IA at annual (take it out so he "doesn't see it) If he can't see it it never happened. Not saying to do it just mentioning what the FAA is driving folks to do with their stupid procedures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 I’ve seen a few experimental GFCs installed by ferries…. You wouldn’t know unless you pulled them out to look at part numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 Well….. In all this time… The FAA has changed… The procedures for certification have changed… The people have changed… One person hasn’t changed… Do you remember Andrew Barker? The heart of TruTrak… The key guy… He sold TruTrak the company to BK…. Now he runs it as a BK guy… If you want a TruTrak AP for your Mooney… Get to know Andrew… The following is an hour long presentation of what Andrew is up to lately… his thought process… and his history…. And what is coming next…. I can see BK needs a product leader…. Looks like Andrew is in the right place…. Find out what TruTrak needs from us to get their device approved for Mooneys to use… Its worth the watch… Yes, he is the mechanical engineer, with the long flowing hair, and knows a few things about certification of avionics and cost control…. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 We have been discussing this for about half a decade already…. https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Andrew barker&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and We can always check in with Andrew Barker and see if he has his email linked here… @BarkerBK Andrew, If you stop in…. Know that there are still many Mooney owners interested in a TruTrak autopilot for their Mooney…. Reminder… Great news, Mooney flight controls are all push rods and torque tubes…. No cables and pulleys…. Go TruTrak! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Avionics Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 10 hours ago, carusoam said: We have been discussing this for about half a decade already…. https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=Andrew barker&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and We can always check in with Andrew Barker and see if he has his email linked here… @BarkerBK Andrew, If you stop in…. Know that there are still many Mooney owners interested in a TruTrak autopilot for their Mooney…. Reminder… Great news, Mooney flight controls are all push rods and torque tubes…. No cables and pulleys…. Go TruTrak! Best regards, -a- Well Anthony, I spoke with the Western Sales Manager for BK the other and I have some updates, but will send them to you via DM and the crowd is pretty harsh when you are a messenger, especially on this subject. LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 This particular topic is a very weighty subject…. It is directly connected to the core values of many forever planes…. Forever Mooneys are often attached directly to a person’s soul…. Even casual conversations can accidentally over promise… to later, under deliver… There are a few big camps on MS… two, are Big G users and non Big G users… The non Big G camp is looking forward to the TruTrak and/or Dynon entry… The Big G camp has adopted the Garmin AP from top to bottom of the Mooney world…. From V to post 65C…. Just a few models left including a few users with Franken Mooneys…. -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Avionics Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 Just now, nosky2high said: What’s the update? The news can’t get worse. BK/FAA f’d this up so bad. Is it cancelled for good? Ok, no it is still a go. I do not trust this too much but will say, I got word this week from them that possibly by end of 1st Qtr it should be ready. All has been approved but one part from one of their suppliers. Let the beatings commence now!!!!! LOL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 12 hours ago, carusoam said: Well….. In all this time… The FAA has changed… The procedures for certification have changed… The people have changed… One person hasn’t changed… Do you remember Andrew Barker? The heart of TruTrak… The key guy… He sold TruTrak the company to BK…. Now he runs it as a BK guy… If you want a TruTrak AP for your Mooney… Get to know Andrew… The following is an hour long presentation of what Andrew is up to lately… his thought process… and his history…. And what is coming next…. I can see BK needs a product leader…. Looks like Andrew is in the right place…. Find out what TruTrak needs from us to get their device approved for Mooneys to use… Its worth the watch… Yes, he is the mechanical engineer, with the long flowing hair, and knows a few things about certification of avionics and cost control…. Best regards, -a- FWIW, this vid is just about TruTrak history and Andrew's interests. There is zero mention of any status or expectation for Mooney autopilots. I kinda want my hour back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, philip_g said: How would you get the stc tho? Often they temporarily move the aircraft inti the "Experimental " category, allowing such mods for the flight.. APs, extra fuel tanks, plumbing and other Facilities" ... Then restore the aircraft to original at the destination. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navi Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 On 12/6/2021 at 5:41 PM, cliffy said: They all may have decided that there just isn't enough money involved in legacy Mooneys to make it profitable I'm now holding out for Dynon The "pent up demand" of the Mooneyites is not lost on TT/BK They are as anxious as as frustrated as you guys are... Latest I heard is that ALMOS ALL of it has the STC approval except 1 or 2 components.. Not sure what they are.. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 31, 2021 Report Share Posted December 31, 2021 Two avenues of thought open up- FAA and Viable Market FAA is playing a fiddle while Paris burns (safety last, no sense of urgency to get lifesaving equipment into legacy CERTIFIED airframes even though these basic autopilots have been flying in experimental airplanes for years virtually without problems). It appears to be CYA for anyone in the FAA before they sign anything off after the Boeing MAX debacle. Some of this was alluded to in the video Reluctance to think in new ways with new technology and reluctance to put one's name on a piece of paper (regardless of operating experience with the technology). - Just remember- legacy airframes are a diminishing market every year, they are NOT where the money is to be made at BK. Can anyone spell UPS or FedEx? Think about it. Likewise the Sport Plane market can use it with a growing market share with NEW airframes having it designed into the system BY THE MANUFACTURER and not having BK to have to design each and every legacy airframe installation (with that expense). Think of all the Dynon installs in this fleet of airplanes. Like it or not our half century old fleet (like them as much as we do) will be relegated to the dust bin of history just like the Model T. Just a few odd curiosities from the long past history. Enjoy it while we can for it is quickly going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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