Small GFC 500 Update

[INA201]

Scroll down to the currently working on list. I’m just glad Mooney’s are at least being worked on.   

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional

[KB4]

Avionics guy told me last week that only the GFC500 will be available for Mooney's.  He has a 231 and is a Garmin installer so guessing he knows.  As of now anyway. 

Supported Aircraft list

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257#additional

 

GFC 500 Certification Programs Currently In-progress:

(Subject to change.)

• Cessna 180
  • Models: 180, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, K
• Cessna 185
  • Models: 185, A, B, C, D, E, A185E, A185F
• Mooney M20
  • Models: J, K, M, R, S

[bradp]

And all the vintage / short body models are now planned -

 

 

[Niko182]

Not gonna lie what garmin just pulled is a giant "fuck you" towards trio and tru trak. I understand its marketing, but they stated that the short bodies wont be certified with the gfc500. Then a lot of the short body owner, moved towards trio and trutrak. And right as the trio and tru trak are about to be certified, yeah, actually were gonna certify the gfc500 for the short bodies.

[ArtVandelay]

It’s still going to take them almost a year, so if TT or Trio can get to market before them.
It’s call competition.
And since TT and Trio are less expensive, they still have an advantage. The question is can they get certified...Garmin has done this before, but TT, Trio and Dynon have not...and it shows.


Tom

[Bob - S50]

6 hours ago, Niko182 said:

Not gonna lie what garmin just pulled is a giant "fuck you" towards trio and tru trak. I understand its marketing, but they stated that the short bodies wont be certified with the gfc500. Then a lot of the short body owner, moved towards trio and trutrak. And right as the trio and tru trak are about to be certified, yeah, actually were gonna certify the gfc500 for the short bodies.

I don't remember Garmin ever saying they were not going to do the short bodies.  The short bodies just didn't make the list initially because they were planned for further down the road than one year.  They have apparently now risen close enough to the top of the list that they plan to start work within a year.  And that's start, not finish.  Could be as much as two years before it is available but we hope not.

And I agree with Tom.  There are lots of people out there that will prefer the TT because it will do everything they want at a lower total cost.

[donkaye]

52 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

There are lots of people out there that will prefer the TT because it will do everything they want at a lower total cost.

The key thing is "everything they want".  Garmin is pretty smart.  Autopilot VNAV so far can only be done with their autopilots.

[gsxrpilot]

38 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Autopilot VNAV so far can only be done with their autopilots.

By this, do you mean anticipating, intercepting, the TOD and then starting the descent? I believe the new Stec3100 can do this as will the AeroCruze if it's ever released.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

By this, do you mean anticipating, intercepting, the TOD and then starting the descent? I believe the new Stec3100 can do this as will the AeroCruze if it's ever released.

VNAV and VCALC are different.  VNAV will do multiple enroute step-downs via pilot programed altitudes or terminal STAR step-downs, or step downs within the approach procedures to transition to the GS or GP.  VCALC will do one step-down between 2 points.  So, although the new software within the GTN 750/650 (with Baro altitude input as a condition of operation) will show the step-downs via a "carrots" on both the VDI and V/S indicators which can be flown manually, only the Garmin Autopilots will fly those multiple step-downs automatically.

Edited March 10, 2019 by donkaye

[gsxrpilot]

53 minutes ago, donkaye said:

VNAV and VCALC are different.  VNAV will do multiple enroute step-downs via pilot programed altitudes or terminal STAR step-downs, or step downs within the approach procedures to transition to the GS or GP.  VCALC will do one step-down between 2 points.  So, although the new software within the GTN 750/650 (with Baro altitude input as a condition of operation) will show the step-downs via a "carrots" on both the VDI and V/S indicators which can be flown manually, only the Garmin Autopilots will fly those multiple step-downs automatically.

Thanks for the clarification. Someday when you get a chance, I'd like to see a picture of what you mean by "Target Trend" on your GTN750. I've searched online a bit and can't find any picture of it.

Thanks.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Thanks for the clarification. Someday when you get a chance, I'd like to see a picture of what you mean by "Target Trend" on your GTN750. I've searched online a bit and can't find any picture of it.

Thanks.

From the Garmin GTN 750 Manual:

 

Notice the BIG difference is immediately deciding if a target is a threat.  It's instant with the TargetTrend green lines.  Not so with the Absolute white ones.

[Steve W]

3 hours ago, donkaye said:

The key thing is "everything they want".  Garmin is pretty smart.  Autopilot VNAV so far can only be done with their autopilots.

Also, at least right now for the cheaper models(not that Trio will be competing for Mooney business), "Flying coupled approaches legally." and "Flying an ILS"

 

[Bob - S50]

4 hours ago, donkaye said:

The key thing is "everything they want".  Garmin is pretty smart.  Autopilot VNAV so far can only be done with their autopilots.

True, but not everybody wants/needs all those features.

We had dual VNAV in the DC9... one in each seat.  We used the analog computer between ours ears and used the throttle and rate wheel to make it happen.  Having the autopilot will be a lot easier though.

[ArtVandelay]

True, but not everybody wants/needs all those features.
We had dual VNAV in the DC9... one in each seat.  We used the analog computer between ours ears and used the throttle and rate wheel to make it happen.  Having the autopilot will be a lot easier though.

Bad analogy, unless you fly the DC9 singlehanded.


Tom

[Marauder]

Thanks for the clarification. Someday when you get a chance, I'd like to see a picture of what you mean by "Target Trend" on your GTN750. I've searched online a bit and can't find any picture of it.
Thanks.

I fly with Garmin Pilot showing TargetTrend from the GDL-39 and the L-3 9000 ATAS providing aural warnings based on calculated risk (a lot less false positives).

TargetTrend is a nice feature because as you look at a target, you can tell quickly whether you are overtaking a plane. The vector line will come out of the back of the target display. It also shows the relative motion of the plane. You can see that in the picture below.



We have some congested airspace here in the northeast as Don does in California. I found that TargetTrend is fine to get a quick understanding what traffic is doing around you. What I do care about is what specific plane is a threat.

In this photo, none of these planes were a conflict for me and I never received an aural warning from the L-3. I have however gotten Garmin Pilot warnings which seems to use a different criteria for potential risks. The L-3 has never issued a warning that wasn’t a real threat.




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[thomas1142]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

From the Garmin GTN 750 Manual:

 

Notice the BIG difference is immediately deciding if a target is a threat.  It's instant with the TargetTrend green lines.  Not so with the Absolute white ones.

Doesn’t this data come from the GTX 345? I get target trend on my GNS 530W from the 345

[Marauder]

Doesn’t this data come from the GTX 345? I get target trend on my GNS 530W from the 345

 

It does. I flew with a few owners with 345s and when I connected my Garmin Pilot to them, I would get TargetTrend.

 

What I don’t know is if the 430/530 can display TargetTrend.

 

 

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[Marauder]

Doesn’t this data come from the GTX 345? I get target trend on my GNS 530W from the 345

You’re getting traffic (up to 8 targets) but not getting TargetTrend on either a 430 or 530. The second to end column on the right is the TargetTrend column.




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[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Bad analogy, unless you fly the DC9 singlehanded.


Tom

We sort of did.  One pilot flew the plane (and used their analog computer) while the other pilot talked on the radios and ran the checklists.  I used the same analog computer single handedly in the F106, F15, and depending on the student, sometimes in the T37.  And if you think about it, you are doing VNAV in your Mooney every time you fly an approach with stepdown fixes.  VNAV from the GFC500 will just make things easier and allow the autopilot to control the yoke so all you have to do is control the throttle and talk on the radios.

[thomas1142]

31 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

You’re getting traffic (up to 8 targets) but not getting TargetTrend on either a 430 or 530. The second to end column on the right is the TargetTrend column.




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Interesting. I get the little vector from targets in the 530W, and I’m pretty sure I see more than 8 targets, I think. We just flew from 54J to Jekyll Island, 079, and I could swear we saw more targets than eight, I’ ll pay better attention on next flight just to verify.

[donkaye]

1 hour ago, thomas1142 said:

Interesting. I get the little vector from targets in the 530W, and I’m pretty sure I see more than 8 targets, I think. We just flew from 54J to Jekyll Island, 079, and I could swear we saw more targets than eight, I’ ll pay better attention on next flight just to verify.

The 530W is processor limited and can only display 8 targets in ABSOLUTE mode.  The vector  lines coming out of the target will be white and not green, which differentiates Absolute from TargetTrend.

[KB4]

The cert wait for some of us is over:

 Aircraft Models Currently FAA Approved for GFC 500 Installation

• Mooney M20
  • Models: J, K, M, R, S

[donkaye]

25 minutes ago, MooneyMartian9 said:

The cert wait for some of us is over:

 Aircraft Models Currently FAA Approved for GFC 500 Installation

• Mooney M20
  • Models: J, K, M, R, S

Unless you had anticipated the approval, the big problem with getting the GFC 500 installed is finding an installer who can do the job before the end of the year---at any price.

[tigers2007]

31 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Unless you had anticipated the approval, the big problem with getting the GFC 500 installed is finding an installer who can do the job before the end of the year---at any price.

From the Lafayette Avionics web site: "WE ARE CURRENTLY SCHEDULED OUT UNTIL MAY 2020 FOR INSTALLATIONS". Yuck.

[Bob - S50]

I guess it depends on where you live.  Our shop is still only planned about 2 months in advance.