Thinking about buying

[TylerB]

Hi all- i just joined because I’m considering buying a Mooney and wanted some feedback(and hopefully find someone local to get a ride).

After I got my PPL I got into a partnership an an awesome 172, but we leased it back to the flight school (CFI was one of the partners) and predictably it wasn’t a great situation. Dealing with the same issues of availability as with renting. 

Got out of that and finished my IFR and wanted something as a better IFR platform and for longer trips. I bought a Commander 114 and did some avionics upgrades. It was great to fly but the cost of upkeep was just too much for the amount of flying and I sold it a few years ago. 

I’ve been renting again (SR20/22s) for a few years but miss the ability to do longer trips (weekends, etc) and started looking for partnerships again with little luck. 

 

I’m considering buying solo (and open to adding a partner later) again, and here’s the mission:

 

* Usually 2 people, but room to squeeze 1-2 more occasionally

* mostly local trips but want to occasionally do long cross countries so anything with a cruise over a 172 will work (115kts+)

* fixed gear or simple retract and common model for lower annual maint costs

* would like a solid IFR setup (gps, autopilot)

 

What I’ve been thinking is why not buy a decent time Mooney with decent P&I and outdated panel for cheap (25-40k) then do the panel over with the Dynon Skyview HDX (and a gps and audio panel) once its added to the STC? I’m guessing It would cost about 40k for all that based on what they’re saying now.

I’m currently thinking a C or F model depending on what’s available, etc. 

 

Thoughts? Anyone in PA near Philly with a C or F that wants to give me a ride? :-)

 

[Marauder]

Hi all- i just joined because I’m considering buying a Mooney and wanted some feedback(and hopefully find someone local to get a ride).
After I got my PPL I got into a partnership an an awesome 172, but we leased it back to the flight school (CFI was one of the partners) and predictably it wasn’t a great situation. Dealing with the same issues of availability as with renting. 
Got out of that and finished my IFR and wanted something as a better IFR platform and for longer trips. I bought a Commander 114 and did some avionics upgrades. It was great to fly but the cost of upkeep was just too much for the amount of flying and I sold it a few years ago. 
I’ve been renting again (SR20/22s) for a few years but miss the ability to do longer trips (weekends, etc) and started looking for partnerships again with little luck. 
 
I’m considering buying solo (and open to adding a partner later) again, and here’s the mission:
 
* Usually 2 people, but room to squeeze 1-2 more occasionally
* mostly local trips but want to occasionally do long cross countries so anything with a cruise over a 172 will work (115kts+)
* fixed gear or simple retract and common model for lower annual maint costs
* would like a solid IFR setup (gps, autopilot)
 
What I’ve been thinking is why not buy a decent time Mooney with decent P&I and outdated panel for cheap (25-40k) then do the panel over with the Dynon Skyview HDX (and a gps and audio panel) once its added to the STC? I’m guessing It would cost about 40k for all that based on what they’re saying now.
I’m currently thinking a C or F model depending on what’s available, etc. 
 
Thoughts? Anyone in PA near Philly with a C or F that wants to give me a ride? :-)
 

Where near Philly are you? There are a number of owners in the area. Why C or F? Something wrong with an E?


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[TylerB]

I’m in Phoenixville and fly out of Pottstown. 

Nothing is wrong with the E, just thinking I don’t need the extra speed, so why have a higher price (probably) and a more expensive engine OH. The interest in the F is more about the extra space in the back. 

[Hank]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a good C.

[Marauder]

I’m in Phoenixville and fly out of Pottstown. 
Nothing is wrong with the E, just thinking I don’t need the extra speed, so why have a higher price (probably) and a more expensive engine OH. The interest in the F is more about the extra space in the back. 

There is at least one owner at Pottstown, one over at Quakertown and 3 of us at New Garden.

Sign up for the Mooney group on Yahoo and send an email asking if anyone can give you a ride. Most on the Yahoo group don’t post here. Send a PM to 201er on this site asking to sign up. He runs the group. It is made up of owners from the mid Atlantic area, despite it being called the NJ Mooney owners group.


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[RLCarter]

39 minutes ago, TylerB said:

Nothing is wrong with the E, just thinking I don’t need the extra speed, 

WOW, don't think I've ever heard a pilot say that before....

The C, D & E are short bodies, all but a few D's (fixed gear) have been converted to C's. There are some heavily modified C's out there that are pretty fast. The C & D are carbureted  so "Hot Starts" aren't an issue on quick turns. If speed is truly not an issue the G might be an option as well, Mid Body and carbureted 

[Raptor05121]

The M20C is THE least expensive complex aircraft to buy and own on the market right now. Johnson bar landing gear will keep maintenance simple and will reward you with 145kt speed at 9gph. The E is faster, but you've got expensive cylinders should you need to top overhaul it.

[neilpilot]

3 hours ago, TylerB said:

Nothing is wrong with the E, just thinking I don’t need the extra speed, so why have a higher price (probably) and a more expensive engine OH. The interest in the F is more about the extra space in the back.

I've owned, and have hundreds of hours in, both a 64E & a 65C.  Of course there are differences, but not as much as your might think.  You should focus on the particulars of the aircraft on the market, irrespective of if it's a C or an E (or F).  When I was looking at replacing my 64E, I was focused on another E but decided to buy my current C based primarily on panel & condition; price was not the primary factor but it was a consideration.  The Es on the market at the time in my price range just didn't have the panel that our C offered.

[Kmac]

Just bought a C and flew it home from Texas.  I am now based at Pottstown (Heritage).  I would be glad to show it to you.  PM me if you want.

[TylerB]

I've owned, and have hundreds of hours in, both a 64E & a 65C.  Of course there are differences, but not as much as your might think.  You should focus on the particulars of the aircraft on the market, irrespective of if it's a C or an E (or F).  When I was looking at replacing my 64E, I was focused on another E but decided to buy my current C based primarily on panel & condition; price was not the primary factor but it was a consideration.  The Es on the market at the time in my price range just didn't have the panel that our C offered.

Makes sense. The main idea was focusing on everything but the panel and see what shows up for a good price in that range. The only part I’m willing to pay more to get would be a WAAS gps since I’ll need it anyway.


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[TylerB]

The M20C is THE least expensive complex aircraft to buy and own on the market right now. Johnson bar landing gear will keep maintenance simple and will reward you with 145kt speed at 9gph. The E is faster, but you've got expensive cylinders should you need to top overhaul it.

That was kinda my thought. I was thinking a 180 Cherokee for low cost of maintenance but someone else pointed out the Mooney and the more I thought about it, especially the C it made sense.


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[CDO]

My C is from Smoketown, a litle far from philly if you can make it to smoketown i wouldnt mind to show you.

@Kmac congrats on your new C!

[gsxrpilot]

7 hours ago, neilpilot said:

I've owned, and have hundreds of hours in, both a 64E & a 65C.  Of course there are differences, but not as much as your might think.  You should focus on the particulars of the aircraft on the market, irrespective of if it's a C or an E (or F).  When I was looking at replacing my 64E, I was focused on another E but decided to buy my current C based primarily on panel & condition; price was not the primary factor but it was a consideration.  The Es on the market at the time in my price range just didn't have the panel that our C offered.

@neilpilot is 100% correct here... AND on where to find the best BBQ in Memphis.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

@neilpilot is 100% correct here... AND on where to find the best BBQ in Memphis.

and the best mexican ice cream in Memphis

[carusoam]

Tyler,

hang out, ask more questions...

Determine your timeline... is this a plane to have, to get you to some next level?

Is this to have for few years?

Is this a forever plane...?

A few MSers have turned M20Cs into forever planes... very nice!

The engine in the M20E is preffered by many... Speed isn’t generally the quality of this engine... there are other important factors for those extra 20hp...

The F is a great way of holding back seaters... got any?

M20D, most have been converted to C status...

Do you have a budget to work from?

Do you have your IR already?

We are pretty good at spending OPM... just ask... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

9 hours ago, TylerB said:

 

That was kinda my thought. I was thinking a 180 Cherokee for low cost of maintenance but someone else pointed out the Mooney and the more I thought about it, especially the C it made sense.


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I did my PPL in Cherokees, a little bit of the time was in a 180. I absolutely fell in love with my "D" (converted to a "C" as @carusoam mentioned above) from the first time I flew it. We have been on a lot of trips from Southern California to UT, ID, and AZ. A "C" is a very affordable traveling plane. If I was considering a Cherokee I would take a serious look at a "C" with a Johnson bar instead. 

[MBDiagMan]

19 hours ago, neilpilot said:

I've owned, and have hundreds of hours in, both a 64E & a 65C.  Of course there are differences, but not as much as your might think.  You should focus on the particulars of the aircraft on the market, irrespective of if it's a C or an E (or F).  When I was looking at replacing my 64E, I was focused on another E but decided to buy my current C based primarily on panel & condition; price was not the primary factor but it was a consideration.  The Es on the market at the time in my price range just didn't have the panel that our C offered.

Yes, the decision between a C or E that happen to be available should be based on the three most important plane purchase decision criteria; 

1.  condition

2.  Condition

3.  CONDITION

Condition trumps the E or C criteria IMHO. 

That said for those who are absolutely heart set on an E that is fine, but if you are, take the time and trouble to find a good one and don’t settle for a lees than good plane just to have an E.

My $0.02,

[Jerry 5TJ]

19 hours ago, neilpilot said:

I've owned, and have hundreds of hours in, both a 64E & a 65C.  Of course there are differences, but not as much as your might think.  ....

I, too owned a 64E and a 65C.  I have about 1,200 hours in those two and to me they seemed to have about the same performance and utility.  I enjoyed flying them all over the lower 48.  

[Kmac]

13 hours ago, CDO said:

My C is from Smoketown, a litle far from philly if you can make it to smoketown i wouldnt mind to show you.

@Kmac congrats on your new C!

Thanks @CDO...you offered to show me your C a few months ago when I was looking.  I was able to look at one even closer but still appreciate your offer.  This is a great community and am thankful for everyone's help.  @TylerB came to the right place...

[TylerB]

Thanks to @Kmac for showing me his awesome C yesterday! Awesome plane and I'd love to find one like it.

I'm pretty convinced this is the way to go for me. I feel like it'll end up being a C, but I'm totally of the same mind as @MBDiagMan- since my focus is not just on economical acquisition but also operations, it'll depend on the particular condition/maintenance/etc of each particular plane. 

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger soon-ish, but first I'm doing a lot of reading here (and elsewhere) on the key things to be looking for and figuring out which are worth the premiums or not (tank reseal or bladders, no-ad prop hub, etc).

I'd like to spend like $25k-$40k. I'd prefer lower obviously but willing to invest a bit more now to avoid $$ later.

To answer some of @carusoam's questions,

I think this would be at least a next 5-10 year plane, and possibly forever depending on what the future holds (kids, etc). I learned that lesson with the commander- mine had a 182-esque useful load and very comfortable backseats..that were empty all but a few times.  

I have my IR already but I'm not current, but even when I was I preferred it for mainly getting in or out of a lower layers, etc. I wasn't doing much hard IFR. I'm expecting mostly VFR flying so that's why the panel wouldn't even be a rush or a definite. And looking at some of the stuff thats on the market, there's some reasonably priced C's with decent panels. 

 

[Kmac]

My pleasure @TylerB.  It was nice meeting you.  Once I get the vacuum pump replaced I'd be glad to take you up in it.

I think you will be able to find a flyable example of a C/D/E/G model within your budget.  In fact...for $40k this airplane looks great. https://barnstormers.com/classified_1329942_Mooney+M20E.html  It is at the bottom of the for sale thread by @Herlihy Brother I actually called about it before I bought mine, however, I didn't want to spend much more than $30k. 

As I said, my uncle owns a Commander 114 and I've flown that before as well.  Transitioning should be pretty simple.  I did take my uncle for a ride in my Mooney and he said "I should sell mine and get one of these."

Again, it was nice meeting you and good luck finding your plane!

[TylerB]

This C at Air Mods looks interesting-
https://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/advert/mooney-m20c-ranger-68

I wonder what the tank seal situation is on it.



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[carusoam]

Wonder less, call Dave at Air Mods...

Dave is one of those knowledgeable Mooney guys.  Pretty easy going. Supplies all the information you need to know to make decisions.

Used Air Mods for a couple annuals... Dave helped me with the 310hp decision process.

Best regards,

-a-

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 4/1/2018 at 7:09 PM, gsxrpilot said:

@neilpilot is 100% correct here... AND on where to find the best BBQ in Memphis.

I don’t dispute condition and panel as key factors.  If the budget is $25-40 and a Unicorn, I mean airframe exists with a 430 and an S-Tec already installed I look forward to seeing it.  Unobtanium...

[TylerB]

I don’t dispute condition and panel as key factors.  If the budget is $25-40 and a Unicorn, I mean airframe exists with a 430 and an S-Tec already installed I look forward to seeing it.  Unobtanium...

I’d agree with that. What would you think a solid well-maintained airframe with a mid time engine and decent P&I would be (assuming a basic, original panel)?