Looking for a Ray Jay STC for my M20c

[jacoody]

Hi All,

I have a M20C that is ready for an engine overhaul and since I live in the west I would love to put a turbo on it.  As has been discussed a million times here and other places, the ray jay stc is tied up in litigation until post-Armageddon most likely so a new one is probably out of the question.  Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has one they are willing to sell.

Thanks!

JA

[MIm20c]

I know one member on this site has most/all the parts you need but I’m not sure about the actual STC. 

My guess is the process will be expensive...

[Two7Victor]

Talco Aviation just acquired Rajay.  Maybe worth a call to them to see if there is any change on the STC.  I talked to the owner Tom about updates to the POH info for my 76F...Seems like a good guy.

Web - https://rajay.aero/

Owner Tom Langeland (386) 304-7079

[neilpilot]

Tom explains their STC policy here

[cctsurf]

the stc is listed on their website:

https://rajay.aero/pages/list-of-stcs

They say:

"(Modworks owns) SA 1156 WE Installation of Roto-Master turbocharged Lycoming IO-360-A1A or O360-A1D engine on Mooney M20A, M20B, M20C, M20D, M20G "

 

[neilpilot]

2 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

the stc is listed on their website:

https://rajay.aero/pages/list-of-stcs

They say:

"(Modworks owns) SA 1156 WE Installation of Roto-Master turbocharged Lycoming IO-360-A1A or O360-A1D engine on Mooney M20A, M20B, M20C, M20D, M20G "

 

But, as Tomgo2 posted in the link I provided above "Legally speaking, RAJAY only sells parts related to STCs which we own and applied to airframes which are listed in our PMA supplement. However, I imagine some of these PMA parts find their way on to other airframes like the Mooneys....".  So doubtful that they can provide or transer an STC for that install.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, JA...

Let’s ask @tomgo2, see if he is around today...

It would be really cool if somebody could get the Mooney related STCs up and running again...

We have at least two MSers that have been discussing TNs on their carbed Moonies....

Best regards,

-a-

[tomgo2]

Hi Guys, unfortunately, RAJAY Turbo Products does not own the Mooney STCs. With that said, we can support you if you decide to put one together on your own using donor parts and common PMA parts from us.

[carusoam]

Tom,

any idea who owns the Mooney STCs currently?

Is there resistance on their part to not let go of them, or use them? 

Is it possible to arrange a licensing fee(or something like that) to allow a Mooney owner to get a new system with the proper documentation?

Have you been in contact with the STC holder?

Just wondering out loud...

Best regard,

-a-

[ragedracer1977]

11 minutes ago, tomgo2 said:

Hi Guys, unfortunately, RAJAY Turbo Products does not own the Mooney STCs. With that said, we can support you if you decide to put one together on your own using donor parts and common PMA parts from us.

How would that work? 

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, ragedracer1977 said:

How would that work? 

This is going from memory but I don’t think the rajay turbo systems are stc’ed to a particular airframe. You might be able to buy the components and STC from someone else and put them on your aircraft. Tom would then be able to supply you with missing parts etc. 

[Yetti]

Still learning about FAA paper work....   But if you wanted one on the C, you would need to buy the parts and then follow the STC process from the FAA.  You could follow the F model STC from Modworks

Supplemental Type Certificate

STC Number:
SA1411WE

This certificate issued to:
Mod Works Inc

STC Holder's Address:
8250 Skyline Way
Punta Gorda FL 33982
United States

Description of the Type Design Change:
Installation of Roto-Master (Rajay) turbocharged Lycoming IO-360-A1A engine.

Application Date:


Status:
Reissued, 11/14/2002

Responsible Office:
Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACE-115A), Tel: (404) 474-5500

[ragedracer1977]

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

Still learning about FAA paper work....   But if you wanted one on the C, you would need to buy the parts and then follow the STC process from the FAA.  You could follow the F model STC from Modworks

Supplemental Type Certificate

STC Number:
SA1411WE

This certificate issued to:
Mod Works Inc

STC Holder's Address:
8250 Skyline Way
Punta Gorda FL 33982
United States

Description of the Type Design Change:
Installation of Roto-Master (Rajay) turbocharged Lycoming IO-360-A1A engine.

Application Date:


Status:
Reissued, 11/14/2002

Responsible Office:
Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACE-115A), Tel: (404) 474-5500

Except I have an O360-A1D

[N201MKTurbo]

I would write or call the FSDO and talk to a maintenance inspector to see if you could do it on a field approval. You probably can. You can use the STC paperwork as approved data for the field approval. It would be a one time thing that applies to your airplane only. You would need to gather all the data to get it approved. (the FAA isn't going to do it for you).

[M20F]

There are 2 STC’s required one for the engine and one for the airframe.  One you can get the other you cannot (forget which it is).  John Breda on this site does have one for sale with both STC’s.  If you are serious about it John is your best option but would be a lot cheaper to just buy one that has it installed already.   

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would write or call the FSDO and talk to a maintenance inspector to see if you could do it on a field approval. You probably can. You can use the STC paperwork as approved data for the field approval. It would be a one time thing that applies to your airplane only. You would need to gather all the data to get it approved. (the FAA isn't going to do it for you).

I don’t really want to, I’d just trade up to a new plane, just curious of the mechanism

[jacoody]

Wow, lots of good info so far.  My understanding is that the STC that Modworks owns is tied up in litigation (gleaned from another thread on this site).  I had no idea that there were two STCs required - one for the airframe and one for the engine.  It would be interesting to know if Modworks owns both.  I really like my C Ranger so I'm apprehensive to buy a different turbo charged one.

A field approval would be an interesting avenue as well but I thought the FAA was shying away from issuing those.  I don't really care if it is a one off installation and approval as I have no desire to resell the STC if I had one.

Any other thoughts or info is appreciated....

 

[jetdriven]

I tried to get a Modworks STC for my plane. We asked the FSDO about using the modworks STC as approved data for the 337 and they said no, you had to buy the STC. But the owner of modworks absconded with the money for about 2 dozen Porsche PFM Mooney’s and split town, and it must have been 15 years since that happened. If you cal the number it rings a hotel. But the FAA says it’s a valid active STC. So you have to find the parts at a swap meet somewhere with the STC papers in the box. 

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I tried to get a Modworks STC for my plane. We asked the FSDO about using the modworks STC as approved data for the 337 and they said no, you had to buy the STC. But the owner of modworks absconded with the money for about 2 dozen Porsche PFM Mooney’s and split town, and it must have been 15 years since that happened. If you cal the number it rings a hotel. But the FAA says it’s a valid active STC. So you have to find the parts at a swap meet somewhere with the STC papers in the box. 

Yeah never been to a swap meet like that.

[jetdriven]

Me neither, but I’m hopeful. 

[1964-M20E]

Just for fun how much would all of the parts required in the STC for a Ray Jay system cost new from Ray Jay? #tomgo2

What other parts are needed that are not available from Ray Jay?

Second while I know it would be expensive and time consuming could we pool together and develop a new STC?  Or as a group try to purchase the existing STC in the name of Mooney Space or even EAA to offer it a a lower cost option for many Mooney owners out there?  I know someone here has tried to purchase the STC before and the deal fell through right a the end.

Are there 2 STCs out there to TN a Mooney?  One using M20 turbos and one Ray Jay or is this the same thing?

Finally while not needed for the flying I normally do (flatland USA) I would like to have it the get slightly higher TAS at altitude.  I typically fly 100 to 120 1 to stay off O2 and 2 climb performance continues to drop off above that.  Just my thoughts.

[jacoody]

I've also considered the new STC route.  I think in order to make it more useful though it makes sense to solve the Cylinder Head Temps (J style cooling for better airflow) and add an intercooler.  Unfortunately that certainly increases the cost....

Edited April 4, 2018 by jacoody
Typos...

[tomgo2]

Hello Gents - yeah, unfortunately, to get a brand new system installed on your plane, it would require a new STC. RAJAY has the engine STC and a lot of information about the airframe STC installation, but as the FAA said, we don't own it so no go there.  I would be more than happy to support a new STC but I believe the costs would be somewhere around $100K to $150K which would include the Engineering, Certification, Substantiation, DER approvals, DAR conformities and any flight testing if required.

[tomgo2]

Just as a FYI...we are doing the cost analysis for the Single Engine Comanche now and looks like it will come in around $35,000 for the kit plus labor. 

[jetdriven]

Not economically viable. For that cost you can sell your airplane and buy the turbo version of it and have a plane designed as such.