Eddy Current AD

[BigD]

Sooooo, it looks like the plane I was interested in has this reoccurring A.D. Replacement of this propeller hub looks like it would be thousands of dollars. I’m curious as to what others think about this. I called Hartsell propellers today and they told me that there are a lot of places now that won’t even do the eddy current inspection and that many places will not complete inspection unless they do an overhaul of the propeller. It sounds like this is a very expensive propeller. I’m curious as to what current vintage Mooney owners Think about this, and what future buyers like myself should do when they find an airplane that has a propeller that subject to this A.D. thanks

 

 

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[carusoam]

Big D,

use the search function, you will find the details....

Most people with affected older planes have come to a solution that works for them...

It costs a couple hundred bucks each year... for the test.

It might take a flight to a neighboring field to get it done... or done right at home.

There are a couple of optional solutions ... new hardware or filling the hub with red dyed oil.

I used to pay the money, have to wait for the test to get done, fly back home... one day out of 365... or one saturday of 52...

Somebody also posted what it looks like when the hub cracks... (non-mooney)

Finding a Mooney That is perfect for you is part of determining a balance of costs and conveniences....

PP thoughts only, we have a good prop guy around here if you have additional questions...

Best regards,

-a-

[Guitarmaster]

Talk to @Codystallings. He will take care of you. There are plenty of shops that will do the eddy current inspection but not all will do it if it did not have the original AD completed.


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[carusoam]

Thanks for the memory jog, Matt!  

@Cody Stallings

Best regards,

-a-

[ShuRugal]

Every time I see this subject come up, I realize how big a bullet I dodged on this AD... Previous owner (and IA) of my bird swapped the hub for a hub that is exempt from the AD by serial number...

[Jerry Pressley]

I am not familiar with an exemption for sn.  B hub possibly but sn?

 

[ShuRugal]

57 minutes ago, acpartswhse said:

I am not familiar with an exemption for sn.  B hub possibly but sn?

 

The AD lists hub model numbers, and serials-number suffixes which are impacted (presumably based on metalurgical batching data??)

 

This AD applies to Hartzell Propeller Inc. ()HC-()2Y(K,R)-() series propellers with nonsuffix serial number (SN) propeller hubs and propeller hubs suffix SN letter ''E'', installed on Lycoming O-, IO-, LO-, LIO-, TO-, LTO-, AIO-, AEIO-, and TIO-360 series reciprocating engines

 

The older ADs requiring hub inspection are both by model number, but the newest is by model number and serial-suffix.

[RobertGary1]

Hartzel is just trying to sell you a new expensive hub. The AD is not a problem just annoying to fly to a prop shop to do it. 

-Robert

[Chris from PA]

More relevant may be how long has it been since the prop and governor were inspected/overhauled and what is the condition of the blades. Mine (requiring the inspection) were long in the tooth so I pulled them off for an overhaul and replaced the hub at that point.

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[Yetti]

Mine was $3000 for an overhaul with recurrent AD

6000 for an new hub and old blades No aD

9000 for a new prop and hub.

I decided to go with 3000 and use the rest of the money to buy av gas

When I asked the NDT inspector if he had ever found a hub with a crack.  He said No.   

I believe Cody has posted some pics of cracked hubs.     I would guess those cracked due to corrosion and poor maintenance.

 

 

[salty]

I just bought the new hub. When they broke open my old one, they were going to have to do a re-peening which was going to cost me enough that it made sense to me to get the new hub and ditch the AD, but I didn't find the AD to be that horrible. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by salty

[mooniac15u]

25 minutes ago, Yetti said:

 I would guess those cracked due to corrosion and poor maintenance.

 

 

I didn't see any corrosion in Cody's pictures.  What kind of poor maintenance would lead to a hub cracking?

[Jerry Pressley]

Now I am confused!!!!!   I looked at the above listed AD very closely and could not find a reference to serial numbers not affected.  Only the A and B hub are exempt.  And the required peening refers to the blade shank as far as I can find.  Cant find anywhere peening is required on the hub.  Of course the prop shops I checked with could be wrong but i would really like to show them documentation to prove them wrong. 

[MIm20c]

The AD prop adds $2-3 an hour for the inspection which takes about 20 mins including R&R of the spinner.  I’d be more concerned when the overhaul was done and first run blades or not. 

[salty]

13 minutes ago, acpartswhse said:

Now I am confused!!!!!   I looked at the above listed AD very closely and could not find a reference to serial numbers not affected.  Only the A and B hub are exempt.  And the required peening refers to the blade shank as far as I can find.  Cant find anywhere peening is required on the hub.  Of course the prop shops I checked with could be wrong but i would really like to show them documentation to prove them wrong. 

If you're referring to my comment, the peening was needed to accomplish the overhaul properly, not part of the AD.

[mooniac15u]

The price per inspection doesn't seem like much but over the life of the propeller I found it was cheaper to replace the hub.  Using numbers posted above it is about $3,000 more to replace the hub at overhaul time.  Where I'm located I had to fly to the prop shop once a year to get the ECI done at a cost of about $300.  Even without factoring in my time (had to take a day off work each time) the break even point is only ten years.

[skydvrboy]

How much should one pay for a hub that's not subject to the AD?  I was at a fly-in recently talking to another Mooney owner who asked about my hub.  He said he had a hub that isn't subject to the AD sitting in his lobby at his dental practice that he would be willing to sell me. 

If I back into it, I pay $200 every 100 hrs for my inspection, or about $20 a month after factoring in time and cost to fly to the shop.  Using even a simple 7 year payback (zero interest) it would only be worth $1,680 and I'm pretty sure it will cost more than that to swap it out.  Am I missing something here?  It just seems that the cost and hassle of the AD is so small it's a non-factor.

[mooniac15u]

32 minutes ago, skydvrboy said:

How much should one pay for a hub that's not subject to the AD?  I was at a fly-in recently talking to another Mooney owner who asked about my hub.  He said he had a hub that isn't subject to the AD sitting in his lobby at his dental practice that he would be willing to sell me. 

If I back into it, I pay $200 every 100 hrs for my inspection, or about $20 a month after factoring in time and cost to fly to the shop.  Using even a simple 7 year payback (zero interest) it would only be worth $1,680 and I'm pretty sure it will cost more than that to swap it out.  Am I missing something here?  It just seems that the cost and hassle of the AD is so small it's a non-factor.

The time to swap the hub is at overhaul.  At that point there's no additional installation costs.  Your inspection cost is on the lower end and you haven't valued your time very high if you are only at $40 for the trip to the shop.  Why are you using a 7 year payback?  How long do you plan to own your aircraft?

[Pictreed]

It's not a concern.  I was in the same place you are once.  I bought the plane and was worried about it until I talked to the prop shop.

My inspection runs about $180 and I have to fly to an airport 14 miles away...I'm there anyway doing a VOR check every month so not a big deal.

I would expect Clarence to fill you in soon on what a waste of time it is to worry about this simple inspection that shouldn't exist anyway from what I hear from the guys who have been doing this for a long time and actually know what they're talking about.  

 

[RobertGary1]

You dont have to replace the hub to get out of the AD. I believe I was quoted about $2000 to do the oil conversion during prop inspection a couple years ago. That gets out of the AD because you'll see the oil leak if it cracks. I ended up not doing it since the AD isn't really that bad.

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

52 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

The time to swap the hub is at overhaul.  At that point there's no additional installation costs.  Your inspection cost is on the lower end and you haven't valued your time very high if you are only at $40 for the trip to the shop.  Why are you using a 7 year payback?  How long do you plan to own your aircraft?

You may be using the term "overhaul" loosely. There is no reason to formally overhaul a prop for part 91. But I agree that having it opened up and a prop shop repair what they want to should be done. But every prop shop I've talked to have said that meeting the spec's of overhaul is a waste of money.

-Robert

[mooniac15u]

7 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You may be using the term "overhaul" loosely. There is no reason to formally overhaul a prop for part 91. But I agree that having it opened up and a prop shop repair what they want to should be done. But every prop shop I've talked to have said that meeting the spec's of overhaul is a waste of money.

-Robert

I was generally referring to any time the prop is in the shop with the hub opened up being a time when there would be no extra cost associated with swapping the hub.  That could be overhaul or any other IRAN.

There is no requirement to overhaul but there may be reasons to.

[skydvrboy]

3 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

The time to swap the hub is at overhaul.  At that point there's no additional installation costs.  Your inspection cost is on the lower end and you haven't valued your time very high if you are only at $40 for the trip to the shop.  Why are you using a 7 year payback?  How long do you plan to own your aircraft?

I could see how it might make sense if/when the prop needs work done on it anyway.  I fly about 50-75 hrs a year, so I need the inspection about every year and a half.  That "pays" me about $160 for my time to fly 30 minutes to the shop, wait 30 minutes for it to be done, and fly home.  And... it gives me another excuse to fly. 

I used a 7 payback, because I won't invest in anything with a longer payback.  If it's longer, it's an expense and not an investment.  Any longer and I could put the money in an investment instead and use the proceeds to pay the recurring cost indefinitely and be money ahead.  

[Guitarmaster]

This was the offending hub in Cody's shop. The red line is when the eddy current showed the crack.
On a bright note, this hub flew into his shop. Shows how robust these props really are!

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[Yetti]

7 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

You dont have to replace the hub to get out of the AD. I believe I was quoted about $2000 to do the oil conversion during prop inspection a couple years ago. That gets out of the AD because you'll see the oil leak if it cracks. I ended up not doing it since the AD isn't really that bad.

 

-Robert

True, but you are using oil against seals that were designed for grease and that does not seem like a good path.