ForeFlight Weight and Balance

[MBDiagMan]

Having trouble making foreflight weight and balance work from the numbers I have for the aircraft.

The envelope plot that I have gives fore and aft limitsmtathat are far from what the loaded cg should be,  I am not understanding foreflight or the POH numbers.  I think the problem is understanding the POH.

[DualRatedFlyer]

Can you post your numbers?

[takair]

It seems to work quite well for my E, which is similar.  Make sure the set-up is correct.  As I recall, oil is not included in the old Mooney wt and balance, but is often included in modern wt and balance sheets......Look for things like that....

[Oldguy]

When I start the setup of your C in FF, I enter the N-number, and it asks for empty weight, CG, and moment. Those are likely found on your current W&B. Mine are from the last avionics upgrade done in 2009. The W&B numbers in the POH are likely out of date, unless your C is still as delivered from the factory. Even when I plug in made up numbers of 1850 EW and 47" CG for your plane's empty weight, it calculated the moment and created what I would call a fairly normal envelope with the empty plane marker in the envelope.

What numbers are you using for empty weight and CG, and where are you getting them?

[kortopates]

Why not get together with your CFI? He’ll go over your weight and balance with you, help you get FF set up properly and make sure got the right data and doing it properly. It’s pretty important stuff to get right.


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[Jim Peace]

36 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Why not get together with your CFI? 

Funny.....

[N201MKTurbo]

When I took my multi ATP check ride the examiner was happy when I showed him I had the plane set up in ForFlight. He knew the plane very well and looked at the form and said "Yep, that looks right" and checked the W&B box on his checklist.

[luv737s]

You should be able to build a chart in foreflight like my examples.  Make sure you have current weight and balance.  I have my original from the factory and current to show you the difference..  Notice she got a little heavier with age...sound familiar.  This is due to addition of electronics and 3 blade prop etc. 

 

Mike

 

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks for the comments.  I am using the current weight and balance numbers.  The problem has something to do with how I am entering fore and aft limits into foreflight.  I am getting the limits from the graph in my paperwork that came with the plane.  It is not in the primitive POH.

i understand weight and balance of an aircraft quite well.  I DONT Understand the fore/aft limits as presented in the Mooney graph that I have and how they relate to the foreflight entries.  I am not sure what to make of the comment about a CFI.

Luv’s examples I am sure would help, but I am unable to open them on my IPad, but I will continue to work on that.

I have calculated weight and balance for the aircraft.  It is just that I can’t get the foreflight calculator to work.  Maybe I am better off doing it as always, with a pad, pencil and calculator.

Thanks again.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Thanks for the comments.  I am using the current weight and balance numbers.  The problem has something to do with how I am entering fore and aft limits into foreflight.

Luv’s examples I am sure would help, but I am unable to open them on my IPad, but I will continue to work on that.

I have calculated weight and balance for the aircraft.  It is just that I can’t get the foreflight calculator to work.  Maybe I am better off doing it as always, with a pad, pencil and calculator.

Thanks again.

Can you post a picture of the ForFlight  W&B screen along with the W&B chart from your POH?

[MBDiagMan]

I have no way to scan the paper, but I might can capture the fact screen.  I will probably go to the hangar and work on that today.

thanks!

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

I have no way to scan the paper, but I might can capture the fact screen.  I will probably go to the hangar and work on that today.

thanks!

Just take pictures with your phone.

[Oldguy]

5 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

I have no way to scan the paper, but I might can capture the fact screen.  I will probably go to the hangar and work on that today.

thanks!

Take a picture of the paper and post.

[Oldguy]

Here are the steps I took to create your "fake" W&B in my Foreflight.

In "More", select Weight & Balance and tap "+". Enter your N-number in the field and tap "Next"

In the next screen, enter your empty weight and CG from your current weight & balance. Moment will be calculated for you. (I made up these numbers) Tap "Next".

Screen showing where ForeFlight got the figures it uses. Tap "Save".

Screen showing your W&B Profiles. Tap on your plane.

Your empty weight & balance screen shows up. Note the tab at the bottom of the screen is "Setup". To calculate a W&B for a flight, Tap the "Load" tab and fill in the fields on the left side of the screen by tapping each applicable one.

 

 

Again, the figures I entered in the second screen were ones I made up. Use the figures you should have for your current empty W&B and it should give you the same graph with the only difference being where the icons within the envelope are located.

Once you complete this setup, it never needs to be changed UNLESS you perform work on your plane which results in a new W&B being issued by the shop doing the work.

[carusoam]

I think I have seen two different graphs over the years...

The traditional one that John is showing in his pics, and another one that is used by people trying to simplify the math...

With the invention of apps the math complexity is less of an issue.

Make sure the graph your app is trying to generate, Looks like the one John posted.

Recognize the limits you have to enter...

• forward limit 
• rear limit
• max weight
• empty weight

You will need...

• plane’s weight and arm
• front seat details, front seats add complexity because the can move.
• rear seat details
• baggage compartment details
• hat rack details
• fuel tank details

some apps add additional limits like for the long bodies....

• max T/O weight
• max Landing weight

Run the app with variations of fuel, from full up to empty...

These were the challenges I had setting up the graph in an app called WnB.

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

The chart in my books is MUCH different than the one in the examples above.  I have everything loaded correctly in FF EXCEPT I don’t think the fore aft limits from this chart are correct.

[MBDiagMan]

[carusoam]

That is the other graph I was referring to..!

They both do the same thing, but require entering data and generate graphs differently...

Thanks for posting it.

Notice the axes names are different...?

One is moment the other is inches... make sure you are putting the right form of data in to match the type of graph you have...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MBDiagMan]

Yep carusoam, that is what was messing me up!

I will report back when finished.

[MBDiagMan]

Old guy (sounds like I am talking to myself) thanks very much for all your postings.  Could you show me the fore aft limits you entered in foreflight to get that shape envelope?

 

thanks a bunch!

[Oldguy]

5 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Old guy (sounds like I am talking to myself) thanks very much for all your postings.  Could you show me the fore aft limits you entered in foreflight to get that shape envelope?

 

thanks a bunch!

I did not enter any. Literally, the only entries I put in after giving it your N-number were empty weight and CG I made up. FF used the N-number to get the serial number for the plane and then referenced the TCDS for that serial number and used the data it contained to fill in the fore and aft limits.

Do you have a current weight and balance for your plane? (I know you do, as you must have one to legally fly.) If so, please take a photo and post it.

I promise, if you do the exact same steps I posted here using your empty weight and CG where I put 1650 and 47.3, it will generate your envelope just like the one I posted.

If you want, you can PM me a phone number and I will walk you through it.

[Andy95W]

This is what you get from FltPlanGo for free.

[carusoam]

The zero fuel weight can add some confusion as well...

Mooneys don't use a zero fuel weight as a limitation.  

Our planes can sub fuel weight and passenger weight without limitations.  Some planes are not as fortunate....

Best regards,

-a-

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks old Guy!  Thanks very much to everyone who offered help.

I had tried to make it all too hard.  I erased the whole thing and started over with the tail number and it was easy peasy.  I do have current weight numbers, so I added those and that was it.  Now I need to get the numbers for my Cessna 140 and put it in.

You guys are always patient and helpful!

[Kyoshiskip]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:54 PM, MBDiagMan said:

Thanks old Guy!  Thanks very much to everyone who offered help.

I had tried to make it all too hard.  I erased the whole thing and started over with the tail number and it was easy peasy.  I do have current weight numbers, so I added those and that was it.  Now I need to get the numbers for my Cessna 140 and put it in.

You guys are always patient and helpful!

Can you post your finalized W/B so I can see where I am still going wrong?