Cost of ownership "budget"

[Mooneymite]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:12 PM, Raptor05121 said:

Eh, not really feeling the airlines. Tow banners, maybe get my CFI, etc and then get into Citation, King Airs, 135 or 91. I'd be happy. I've got no interest in fleeting through TSA and flying cattle cars between the same airports 5 times a day.

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Towing banners?  Do you really need to build time that badly?  I did it in the ATL area for a short time and can assure you, it is a segment of commercial aviation where danger, boredom, irregular schedule and low wages are perfectly matched.  

If you don't care for airline flying, try the fractionals!

[aviatoreb]

  On 11/17/2017 at 8:24 PM, Mooneymite said:

I don't know about other dinosaurs on here, but I began airplane ownership as my kids were finishing up college.

Frankly, aircaft ownership is MUCH cheaper than tuition/college.  Buy $175 worth of avgas?  Think, "one textbook".  $14,000 annual?  Think, "one semester tuition".

And aircraft ownership does not involve mandatory liberal-indoctrination!

What a bargain!  

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OMG - spot on.  Right now I have two of my 3 boys in college at the same time...and one to go...

[Raptor05121]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:25 PM, Mooneymite said:

Towing banners?  Do you really need to build time that badly?  I did it in the ATL area for a short time and can assure you, it is a segment of commercial aviation where danger, boredom, irregular schedule and low wages are perfectly matched.  

If you don't care for airline flying, try the fractionals!

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My goal is to log time without having to buy fuel. So anything will do I was fueling up the Mooney yesterday and had a Super Cub pull behind me. We chatted for a bit, he tows banners. It seems to be the easiest job for a freshly minted comm pilot to get. 

[Mooneymite]

  On 11/18/2017 at 2:13 PM, bluehighwayflyer said:

What are the starting salaries, Gus, and salary potential after say 15 years when I would hit the age cap? 

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All the details are a foggy memory to me.  You can get all the salary/details at:  https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy

Present age cap for 121 carriers is 65.  Parts 135/91k presently have no age limits.

[mike_elliott]

  On 11/17/2017 at 2:48 PM, bradp said:

Example - last night I had to explain to the wife what an AMU is.  First world problems indeed

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YOU DID WHAT???????? Shame on you!

[Andy95W]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:01 PM, Raptor05121 said:

I might be one of the few that disagree here. I'm 26, looking to build hours so I can get my IFR, commercial, and start flying for money. 
 

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I think this is an excellent reason to take a loan because it’s like a student loan- and owning your Mooney is adding things to your aviation education that you wouldn’t be able to find anywhere else.  Good for you and good luck  

 

 

[M20F]

The answer is about $30K to cover a new engine.  The planned maintenance is easy, it’s the unplanned that gets you.  

[Jim Peace]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:12 PM, Raptor05121 said:

Eh, not really feeling the airlines. Tow banners, maybe get my CFI, etc and then get into Citation, King Airs, 135 or 91. I'd be happy. I've got no interest in fleeting through TSA and flying cattle cars between the same airports 5 times a day.

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I towed banners and it is dangerous.  Had a few planes go down in my operation.  1 died.  This was over 2 seasons at the Grand Strand.....some of my best flying memories though.

I was a 91 corporate pilot for years and gulfstreams all the way up to the GV,  also flew 135 charters for almost two decades.  Airline flying now and although boring take the pain in stride with the TSA etc and you can have a much better paycheck and retirement and benefits and actually get time off to do your own things.  My only regret is that I did not pursue the 121 stuff fast enough.  

TSA is not bad now with known crewmember.  

If you get on with the right airline and have seniority you can do what I do,,,,fly 12 days straight in international ops and then rest of month off and no passengers.......my only real dilemma today was to decide what to eat for breakfast....fishhead and squid soup or French toast and cereal here in Taiwan.  The rest of my day will be spent in first class travel while someone else drives.

Good luck........

 

[Andy95W]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:12 PM, Raptor05121 said:

Eh, not really feeling the airlines. Tow banners, maybe get my CFI, etc and then get into Citation, King Airs, 135 or 91. I'd be happy. I've got no interest in fleeting through TSA and flying cattle cars between the same airports 5 times a day.

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Your statements are nearly identical to my own 20 years ago.  Boy, was I wrong!

If the job really were all that bad, nobody would want to do it.  And we don't fly between the same airports 5 times a day.  For one thing, that would be unsafe because it would breed complacency.  And like Jim said, TSA isn't so bad.  What was bad was immediately following 9/11 when every airport had its own security that all had different standards.

The life of a corporate pilot isn't that great, by the way.  On call 6 days with one day off, and you get called to work on the 7th day.  No thanks.  

Or how about making a 1 hour flight at 7am, then have to sit and wait in an FBO for 8 hours because the boss says, "Make sure you're ready to go at 4 o'clock!"  But then he doesn't show up until 6:30 and doesn't have the decency to call and say he's running late.  No thanks.

Or having to help load bags, or deal with catering the airplane because the boss refuses to leave without his Perrier bottled water and gets pissed off at you if it isn't right.  No thanks.

Or being threatened with getting fired because you don't want to fly an unsafe airplane, or go below minimums on an approach.  No thanks.

The life of the fractional guys isn't too bad, until they have to fly on an airline to meet there airplane.  And they don't have priority going through the line or, like Jim said, Known Crewmember access.  And they don't get flight benefits.

It is true that you have to "pay your dues" at a regional airline.  But here's the secret: It's still a hell of a lot of fun doing that!

Doing what you enjoy doing with a bunch of pretty decent people, most of whom you actually enjoy hanging out with is worth low pay initially- but even that pay has come up ALOT with the pilot shortage as it is.

PM me if you want some info about what my life is like on a week to week basis.  Flying started out as a hobby for me and now it's my full-time job.  How lucky is that?  

[Guitarmaster]

  On 11/19/2017 at 4:26 AM, Andy95W said:

Your statements are nearly identical to my own 20 years ago.  Boy, was I wrong!
If the job really were all that bad, nobody would want to do it.  And we don't fly between the same airports 5 times a day.  For one thing, that would be unsafe because it would breed complacency.  And like Jim said, TSA isn't so bad.  What was bad was immediately following 9/11 when every airport had its own security that all had different standards.
The life of a corporate pilot isn't that great, by the way.  On call 6 days with one day off, and you get called to work on the 7th day.  No thanks.  
Or how about making a 1 hour flight at 7am, then have to sit and wait in an FBO for 8 hours because the boss says, "Make sure you're ready to go at 4 o'clock!"  But then he doesn't show up until 6:30 and doesn't have the decency to call and say he's running late.  No thanks.
Or having to help load bags, or deal with catering the airplane because the boss refuses to leave without his Perrier bottled water and gets pissed off at you if it isn't right.  No thanks.
Or being threatened with getting fired because you don't want to fly an unsafe airplane, or go below minimums on an approach.  No thanks.
The life of the fractional guys isn't too bad, until they have to fly on an airline to meet there airplane.  And they don't have priority going through the line or, like Jim said, Known Crewmember access.  And they don't get flight benefits.
It is true that you have to "pay your dues" at a regional airline.  But here's the secret: It's still a hell of a lot of fun doing that!
Doing what you enjoy doing with a bunch of pretty decent people, most of whom you actually enjoy hanging out with is worth low pay initially- but even that pay has come up ALOT with the pilot shortage as it is.
PM me if you want some info about what my life is like on a week to week basis.  Flying started out as a hobby for me and now it's my full-time job.  How lucky is that?  

This^^^^^ !!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Mooneymite]

Fractional flying is second best...but it's a distant second.  

When I was at the airline, I used to see fractional pilots on my airplane, but never had a clue about their job...now that I aged-out at the airline, I am one.  

In 10 years, I've flown to 550 different airports, so if you like variety, this it.  In 30 years at the airline I bet I didn't  fly to 100 different airports.  Of course, I am intimately familiar with TEB.  

Oh.  Small correction to the above post:  KCM is available to us if we want it.

[carusoam]

You guys are great!

Thanks for openly sharing these details...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

  On 11/18/2017 at 1:37 PM, aviatoreb said:

OMG - spot on.  Right now I have two of my 3 boys in college at the same time...and one to go...

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I feel you. I have two away at college. Supporting 3 household, tuition, etc. Makes me not anxious to put money into my planes.

 

-Robert

[aviatoreb]

  On 11/20/2017 at 6:38 PM, RobertGary1 said:

I feel you. I have two away at college. Supporting 3 household, tuition, etc. Makes me not anxious to put money into my planes.

 

-Robert

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I look at it this way - maybe this is the home stretch?  Maybe they will be out in the world soon earning their own way, and making their own name - and THEN my panel gets a massive upgrade!

Meanwhile my airplane has a new critical mission - going to Ithaca to pick up the boys and their laundry.

[N6758N]

  On 11/20/2017 at 9:12 PM, aviatoreb said:

I look at it this way - maybe this is the home stretch?  Maybe they will be out in the world soon earning their own way, and making their own name - and THEN my panel gets a massive upgrade!

Meanwhile my airplane has a new critical mission - going to Ithaca to pick up the boys and their laundry.

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At least the flight isn't too long Erik. When are we going to see pictures of that new paint job?!

[gsxrpilot]

  On 11/20/2017 at 6:38 PM, RobertGary1 said:

I feel you. I have two away at college. Supporting 3 household, tuition, etc. Makes me not anxious to put money into my planes.

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I had one graduate in May and start a full time salaried job in August. The second and final child is graduating next month. Hmmm... maybe time for an airplane upgrade ;-)  In reality, maybe I can now pay off the panel.

But is sure does feel good to see the light at the end of the tuition tunnel.

[flyboy0681]

  On 11/20/2017 at 9:53 PM, gsxrpilot said:

 

But is sure does feel good to see the light at the end of the tuition tunnel.

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Mine is finishing up his graduate work in April. I just hope that light that you speak of isn't a PhD freight train.

[gsxrpilot]

  On 11/21/2017 at 12:53 AM, flyboy0681 said:

Mine is finishing up his graduate work in April. I just hope that light that you speak of isn't a PhD freight train.

Not a chance with my kids. Hahahaha

[yvesg]

  On 11/21/2017 at 12:55 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Not a chance with my kids. Hahahaha

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I was (not) lucky with this. My 5 kids decided to follow their mom’s path and did not like going to school. It did not cost much in tuition but I am paying back now having to co-sign mortgages.

Yves

[aviatoreb]

  On 11/21/2017 at 1:36 AM, yvesg said:

I was (not) lucky with this. My 5 kids decided to follow their mom’s path and did not like going to school. It did not cost much in tuition but I am paying back now having to co-sign mortgages.

Yves

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I'm waiting for my boys to graduate, open up a fantastic static .dot come, make their first billion then buy me a TBM 930.

Ever wonder what Mark Zuckerberg's dad is flying?

[M016576]

  On 11/21/2017 at 3:25 AM, aviatoreb said:

I'm waiting for my boys to graduate, open up a fantastic static .dot come, make their first billion then buy me a TBM 930.

Ever wonder what Mark Zuckerberg's dad is flying?

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I bet he’s flying exactly what I’d be “flying”.... and by that, I mean riding in the back of a G650 sipping Bourbon.

[flyboy0681]

  On 11/21/2017 at 3:25 AM, aviatoreb said:

I'm waiting for my boys to graduate, open up a fantastic static .dot come, make their first billion then buy me a TBM 930.

Ever wonder what Mark Zuckerberg's dad is flying?

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From my experience it doesn't always work that way. My wife and I have a very close friend whose son wrote a software development kit (SDK) in 2007 for the newly introduced iPhone which permitted people to join a network and play games in real-time with others. Three years later he sold his company for $105m, at 27 years old and no partners. He's a very regular guy, married his college sweetheart and lives in an ordinary San Francisco neighborhood. He only indulges his parents with a family vacation once a year. We all had dinner in the Bay Area last August and he was telling me about a recent flight he took on Virgin America with his wife from Ft Lauderdale to San Francisco where the window seat was not occupied and that he and his wife could spread out in the entire rowand how great it was. To me, that spoke volumes.

[MyNameIsNobody]

$2400 a year plus fuel and $25/hour engine fund.  Co-Owner pays the same.

Upgrades?  Extra.  ADSB Compliance?  (Robbed engine fund)

[MyNameIsNobody]

  On 11/21/2017 at 4:46 AM, flyboy0681 said:

From my experience it doesn't always work that way. My wife and I have a very close friend whose son wrote a software development kit (SDK) in 2007 for the newly introduced iPhone which permitted people to join a network and play games in real-time with others. Three years later he sold his company for $105m, at 27 years old and no partners. He's a very regular guy, married his college sweetheart and lives in an ordinary San Francisco neighborhood. He only indulges his parents with a family vacation once a year. We all had dinner in the Bay Area last August and he was telling me about a recent flight he took on Virgin America with his wife from Ft Lauderdale to San Francisco where the window seat was not occupied and that he and his wife could spread out in the entire rowand how great it was. To me, that spoke volumes.

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That guy is a _ _ _ _ _-_ _ _ _ _ _ _.

Face palm.

[noeesp]

This thread is a real eye opener.  I better start a Mooney fund.  A nicely equipped OlDER Mooney is starting to sound more and more like what my family’s first plane will likely be. Love this place lots of great info.