M20K Pre-Buy Questions and Shop Recommendation (NC, KEQY)

[agoessling]

I'm preparing to negotiate a purchase agreement for a 1984 M20K 231 located in Monroe, North Carolina (KEQY).  I'm curious if anyone has in advice on what I should request to be inspected on this plane (or any 231 in general).  Specifically this plane had a hard landing in June where the shock discs were replaced and gear doors replaced / repaired.  FlightAware shows it's flown a decent amount since.  Knowing this, is there anything else special I should request in the pre-buy?

I'm also looking for recommendations for mechanics knowledgeable with Mooneys to do a pre-buy near Monroe, NC / KEQY.

Thanks,

Andy

[gsxrpilot]

If you have to tell the shop what to inspect on the Mooney, you're at the wrong shop.

I'm sure @Bob_Belville can make a recommendation.

[Guest]

Inspect EVERYTHING! There are no standards for a PPI other than your wishes and the inspector.

Every panel on the plane should be removed for inspection. Better to spend more on a thorough PPI and not buy the plane than to spend little and regret buying it.

These pages are full sad stories of things missed, leaking fuel tanks, rotten wing spars, rotten steel structures etc.  Many leading to the plane being sold for scrap value, don't be one of them.

Clarence

[Bob_Belville]

24 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

If you have to tell the shop what to inspect on the Mooney, you're at the wrong shop.

I'm sure @Bob_Belville can make a recommendation.

You're in or near Monroe NC? There's a Mooney Service Center, https://www.aglaviation.com/ at KMRN, about 30 Mooney minutes away. Lynn (and Tamara) Mace do a good many Mooney PPIs which often lead to long term relationships if the buyer buys the plane.

[Jsavage3]

Often a PPI turns into an annual inspection, much to the new owner's benefit. Since an annual causes a shop to actually sign it off as airworthy (no signature req'd for a PPI), said shop has a lot more skin in the game; hence, they're much more motivated to do a thorough inspection. As far as where? I'd suggest getting the inspection done at a Mooney Service Center (MSC).  I've never had any dealings with this shop, but Foothills Regional (KMRN) is a MSC and their phone # is  828-757-0099. Good luck!!

Edited October 25, 2017 by Jsavage3
MSC info

[231LV]

As a previous poster said, "everything!" That being said, a hard landing can (and did in my case) necessitate a reseal of fuel tanks....staining will be evident(especially along the bottom wing seam at the landing gear door top) but a prebuy may not look at the condition of the existing wing sealant...a reseal is a $15 amu job if done right...

[sgrooves]

+1 on AGL Aviation. Had my first annual there. It's about a 35 min flight from Monroe

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, agoessling said:

I'm preparing to negotiate a purchase agreement for a 1984 M20K 231 located in Monroe, North Carolina (KEQY).  I'm curious if anyone has in advice on what I should request to be inspected on this plane (or any 231 in general).  Specifically this plane had a hard landing in June where the shock discs were replaced and gear doors replaced / repaired.  FlightAware shows it's flown a decent amount since.  Knowing this, is there anything else special I should request in the pre-buy?

I'm also looking for recommendations for mechanics knowledgeable with Mooneys to do a pre-buy near Monroe, NC / KEQY.

Thanks,

Andy

 

I used this when I bought a '97 Encore and it was very helpful.

M20K PRE-BUY.pdf

[mooniac15u]

8 hours ago, agoessling said:

I'm preparing to negotiate a purchase agreement for a 1984 M20K 231 located in Monroe, North Carolina (KEQY).  I'm curious if anyone has in advice on what I should request to be inspected on this plane (or any 231 in general).  Specifically this plane had a hard landing in June where the shock discs were replaced and gear doors replaced / repaired.  FlightAware shows it's flown a decent amount since.  Knowing this, is there anything else special I should request in the pre-buy?

I'm also looking for recommendations for mechanics knowledgeable with Mooneys to do a pre-buy near Monroe, NC / KEQY.

Thanks,

Andy

Why would a hard landing necessitate replacing the gear doors and shock discs?

[jetdriven]

The lower gear doors can hit he ground, at least with cheaper and  softer tires. 

[LANCECASPER]

Don Maxwell just installed new shock discs and tires in 2015 according to the logs.

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

And in really exreme cases a bad landing can actually explode the shock discs.  I have seen pictures on the Internet. Wow!

Without damage to other, more important, structural parts?  If it hit hard enough to damage the shock discs I would be worried about what else might be bent or cracked?

[Marcopolo]

@agoessling,

 

  Let me also recommend AGL Aviation as metioned above.  I am at KMRN at least a couple times a month and would be more than happy to assist with any logistics if needed.  I fly out of (KIPJ) Lincolnton NC which is right in the middle of (KEQY) Monroe and (KMRN) Morganton.  If I can be of any assistance please PM me.

 

Ron

(marcopolo)

 

[gsxrpilot]

A Maxwell signature in the log book is always a good thing.

[bradp]

I would look for evidence of a pranged / struck prop if your future mistress was landed hard enough to necessitate replacement of the (hopefully inner and not outer) gear doors.  Which gear doors, btw? 

If the rationale is that the gear doors hit because the pucks needed to be replaced, id be suspect of the General state of maintenance if the pucks had been deferred long enough to become cracked / useless as shock absorbers .

Take some pics and put the logbook entries up here and the community can be a very helpful adjunct to a thorough inspection for gotchas.  

[peevee]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Don Maxwell just installed new shock discs and tires in 2015 according to the logs.

make sure he did it right. he put the top cap on backwards on our 231 and then missed it in PPI.

[peevee]

52 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

A Maxwell signature in the log book is always a good thing.

I disagree.

[CaptRJM]

Plane is at my IAs for a pre-buy/annual at KSUT.  He also did the repairs after the "hard landing" earlier this year.

[Bryan]

Here are a couple of things that showed up on my PPI on a recent purchase of a M20K 231:

• Compression tests
• Oil Sample tests or Borescope
• Corrosion
• Fuel leaks, seaps
• Mags (500 hr inspection status)
• O2 Hydro test, life left
• No back spring inspection
• damage history?  (if so, repairs)
• MSC annuals in logs?
• Flight history

[agoessling]

@bradp, the logs are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BythD3srZQ8EcEtQSUowZUctMmM?usp=sharing  Specifically, the entry of the hard landing is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYttyiw-2uGMEFpSGVsVnRKTjA/view?usp=sharing

 

@CaptRJM, you mean 81X is currently at your IA in KSUT for a pre-buy?

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by agoessling

[FBCK]

Ask for the tanks to be full as its easier to find if they are leaking, when I purchased my 231, the tanks were about 20% full, everything looked good, filled them later and you could smell the fuel, had to do a reseal.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, FBCK said:

Ask for the tanks to be full as its easier to find if they are leaking, when I purchased my 231, the tanks were about 20% full, everything looked good, filled them later and you could smell the fuel, had to do a reseal.

And now with all the spar corrosion issues popping up, leaks may only be a small problem.  This corrosion only becomes evident when ding a strip and seal.

Clarence

 

[Pritch]

After pulling my seats in my 84k I decided to pull up the foam backed carpet and the foam was stuck to the floor.  While doing this I noticed what looked like white powder at the rear of the outside passenger seat rail.  After removing ALL the carpet (floor and side panels) the tab that holds the carpet below the read seats had corrosion and a slight amount of surface corrosion on the spar. After a though cleaning and resealing the I/A was satisfied.  BUT, while the side panels were out one could see where water had been entering through the door and left stains on the foam board backing, new door seal.  Also the fuel pickup and return were leaking and had to be resealed.  All of this was missed at my PPI last year at LASAR. 

Pritch

[mike_elliott]

As Clarence suggests in a prebuy, look at everything! Most prebuys are designed to be simple, somewhat economic cursory examination of the "show stopper" items like corrosion, spar cracks, bladder rot (sorry couldnt help myself) and tank leaks, along with airworthness in documentation. They are not usually conducted to find every possible issue a plane of upwards of 50 years sometimes can have, unless the buyer is willing to pay for it. I can see where that would turn into the super annual from Hell (SAFH). Heck, just to verify the engine's true condition could be more than a potential purchaser would be willing to spend and a seller willing to have done. Guys like Eric Rudningen, Clarence, Lynn Mace, Don Maxwell take this into account and go after the big ticket items in a prebuy  as best they can for the bucks they get. A prebuy in a lot of ways is more complicated than an annual for a well kept plane, and why most specialtiy shops would rather just do an annual.

 

[Yetti]