Not the best landing

[Andy95W]

Yes, the Vs1 and Vso speeds are predicated on 0° bank angle.

@Hank has a very good technique that he provided above (and in other places) for moderate length fields.  My technique, due to a rough 2000' landing distance available strip, is to turn final at 75 and slow to 60-65mph on very short final if I'm by myself.  I add 5 mph for each adult passenger.

[kortopates]

Yes, the Vs1 and Vso speeds are predicated on 0° bank angle.
[mention=6921]Hank[/mention] has a very good technique that he provided above (and in other places) for moderate length fields.  My technique, due to a rough 2000' landing distance available strip, is to turn final at 75 and slow to 60-65mph on very short final if I'm by myself.  I add 5 mph for each adult passenger.

Even better than going by 0 degrees of bank is to recognize its really 1 g level flight or angle of attack. Thus in stabilized approach to landing where you are in a constant descent you don't need to be as concerned about the bank angle because stall speed is reduced from the lower AOA. It's flying the long pattern where one ends up holding back pressure to keep level or getting low and responding with back pressure instead of power (when not already fast) that gets us into trouble - or even worse, the deadly skidding turn from using excessive rudder which leads to pulling back even more elevator.
Anyway, it's not just bank but G loading that comes from bank. Vspeeds are unaccelerated 1 G speeds.


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[Brian_tii]

On 8/10/2017 at 4:50 PM, Marauder said:

I wonder if the Cirrus guys have issues with bounced landings as well. I think they use the same donuts as we do in their nose gear.




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Yes, bounces and prop strikes are / were common on the G1 & G2 planes before they made the gear taller on the G3. The nose uses the puck system but the mains use just a composite gear leg. The newer models have a strut instead of the pucks.

 

The Mooney sounds really similar to the Cirrus for landing. From what I've found, airspeed control is critical, then pull to idle a few feet off the ground and hold the nose off until it's ready to land. A little fast and it eats up runway and won't land, and a little slow and you end up with a nasty sink rate. Over the fence at about 75 kts seems to be about the sweet spot for ours, 72ish if light or want a steeper angle. Don't dare get below 70kts. 

[steingar]

Well I did a go-around for the first time since transitioning into the Mooney yesterday.  I was high and fast on short final and didn't like it.  Second try was much better.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, steingar said:

Well I did a go-around for the first time since transitioning into the Mooney yesterday.  I was high and fast on short final and didn't like it.  Second try was much better.

You done good! That's what go arounds are for. Never be embarrassed to do one.

[Mooneymite]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

You done good! That's what go arounds are for. Never be embarrassed to do one.

Hank, I was told that a smoking hole was a small price to pay for a sh#t-hot approach.

I guess things have changed?

[Hank]

11 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Hank, I was told that a smoking hole was a small price to pay for a sh#t-hot approach.

I guess things have changed?

Sure have! Millenials, Gen X and Y, etc., don't even celebrate "the sound of freedom."

[Guitarmaster]

Whenever someone gets on me for drinking Diet Coke, I tell them that you have to die of something.  For me:  I'm going for Aspartame poisoning or smoking hole in the ground.   Usually I tell this to flight attendants.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by Guitarmaster

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 9/10/2017 at 10:14 PM, Brian_tii said:

Yes, bounces and prop strikes are / were common on the G1 & G2 planes before they made the gear taller on the G3. The nose uses the puck system but the mains use just a composite gear leg. The newer models have a strut instead of the pucks.

 

The Mooney sounds really similar to the Cirrus for landing. From what I've found, airspeed control is critical, then pull to idle a few feet off the ground and hold the nose off until it's ready to land. A little fast and it eats up runway and won't land, and a little slow and you end up with a nasty sink rate. Over the fence at about 75 kts seems to be about the sweet spot for ours, 72ish if light or want a steeper angle. Don't dare get below 70kts. 

75knots over the fence?  I am 80MPH on final and power out when runway made.  80 knots is WAY FAST for over the fence for me regardless of load.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Different beast those Cirrus...

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:08 AM, steingar said:

Wasn't really an accident.  No bent metal, and with all the trim and flaps it certainly gains altitude with alacrity.  Just an unusual situation that lead to some distraction.  My point was if I'm going to deal with that by fireballing the throttle in touch down position I'd best have a very good reason.

Firebaling?  That's a new one.  Stealing that.  Way more exciting than firewalling...

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 8/12/2017 at 5:03 PM, Skates97 said:

Go somewhere with a long runway that you aren't worried about getting it on the ground. Get into ground effect and then just try to hold it barely off the runway until it touches down. It doesn't take much nose up to do that. I've never flown a 172 so I can't comment on that, but compared to the Cherokee it doesn't feel like I'm really flaring much at all in the Mooney. Better yet, take up the offer from @Marauder to go get some landings in with them. Do a few where they are landing and you can just pay attention to the sight picture without worrying about flying the plane. Once you have that in your mind then it's your turn to try it. Going up with @MHemperly and watching him land helped me a lot to get the sight picture.

What I think requires very LITTLE pitch is the transition from decent to round out.  Then it is just hold it off and let it land when it is ready...THEN hold it off with a little back pressure stall horn mains and keep holding back pressure to keep nose wheel off as long as possible.  Easy when light.  It all changes with load.  Everybody has bounced a Mooney.  "It happens".  Not all bounces escalate to a go around.  A touch of power and repeat.  If it bounces twice...GO AROUND.  No big deal.  Just more fun Mooney time.

[Brian_tii]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, MyNameIsNobody said:

75knots over the fence?  I am 80MPH on final and power out when runway made.  80 knots is WAY FAST for over the fence for me regardless of load.

For a Cirrus? Yes, 75kts over the fence is quite common, can get away with 72 if not heavy... but should NOT be much slower. Many shoot for 75-80kts. The guys who bounce are 80-85kts. I'm sure the numbers are lower for a Mooney, but technique sounds similar. ILS approach is 100kts to minimums on the SR2x. It can be flown at 90, but the Cirrus recommended 100kts I think works better.

[gsxrpilot]

For those of you attending the Mooney Summit, you'll see some of us demonstrate some smooth Mooney landings in our formation flight demo. We'll be 90 knots over the fence. 

[steingar]

On 9/16/2017 at 8:58 PM, MyNameIsNobody said:

Firebaling?  That's a new one.  Stealing that.  Way more exciting than firewalling...

 

Yeah, firewalling. I suspect autocorrect. Gotta give The Lucky Strike an oil change soon. Just did one on my motorcycle.