Avidyne IFD 540/440-Garmin 500 software bug

[OliverBucher]

3 hours ago, AviSimpson said:

Let's clear a few things up here. I don't think we ever solely blamed Garmin for this issue. In an earlier post, I even said we are not playing the blame game. What I recommended, is that the user of the G500 check their software update and verify they had the same one that we had in one of our test bed aircraft since it was recently flown with zero issues. We have customers out there with the G500/600 who have a later than 6.21 software and the Release 10.2 with no issues.  So, you can see that this has a few layers of complexity in troubleshooting and identifying the single cause. In all cases of the issue, it only exists when taxiing on the ground, in no circumstance has this been reported in the air. We feel like we have a good idea of where the problem lies but won't know until the conclusion of the ongoing tests. This issue is the main driving factor in our next release, 10.2.1 and it has our full attention. To answer an earlier question on a timeline for the next release, our goal is to have it out as soon as possible. With a minor release like this one, it has a more streamlined approval process with its primary focus not introducing new features that impact TSOs. 

I invite anyone that suggests we don't test our software rigorously before it is sent to our customers or the FAA for approval to come to either our Concord, MA or Melbourne, FL for a visit with our engineers or our manufacturing facility. We will be more than happy to give you a glimpse at what all of our releases go through both on the hardware and software side.

@thinwing PM me your full contact information, we will be happy to work out the warranty claim with your shop so that you or your shop aren't burdened by all this. Additionally, I believe you said your shop, Executive Autopilots, had been working with our Tech Support team on this issue? We have a tech support rep that has taken the lead on this issue, TJ Sutton. Can you verify that they are working with him?

Sorry that is not correct, I have send a picture at the Avidyne forum, where you can see that I have also the problems in the air, cause it can also happen in the take off run shortly before airborne :-( And thereafter you have the issue also in the air!!!

I have bought a Avidyne IFD440/540 combo and Garmin G500 in November 2017. Therefore my G500 have Vers. 7.12 at delivery!!!

In the installation Manual at this Date is nothing written about the G500 Software Version!!

I think the IFD have the best HM (Human-Machine) Interface on the market. But with also some big Technical buggs (GPS Positioning when circling with more than 35deg bank / G500 issue / Not identical Times between 440 and IFD540 on start up).

For me it is frustrating cause I have spend a lot of money, and now I have a lot of problems with the IFD.

The tech support, says for example the GPS Positioning failure is a problem of the GPS Antenna location-but on the DA40 the Antennas are on the roof and it is a "plastic" low Wing plane :-(

AVSimson you can send me a Email to my private adress oliverbucher@emilbucher.de 

Cause after the experience of my installer and myself maybe it is better than over your tec-support.

Excuse my bad english, I am from Germany.

Oliver

 

[OliverBucher]

3 hours ago, AviSimpson said:

Let's clear a few things up here. I don't think we ever solely blamed Garmin for this issue. In an earlier post, I even said we are not playing the blame game. What I recommended, is that the user of the G500 check their software update and verify they had the same one that we had in one of our test bed aircraft since it was recently flown with zero issues. We have customers out there with the G500/600 who have a later than 6.21 software and the Release 10.2 with no issues.  So, you can see that this has a few layers of complexity in troubleshooting and identifying the single cause. In all cases of the issue, it only exists when taxiing on the ground, in no circumstance has this been reported in the air. We feel like we have a good idea of where the problem lies but won't know until the conclusion of the ongoing tests. This issue is the main driving factor in our next release, 10.2.1 and it has our full attention. To answer an earlier question on a timeline for the next release, our goal is to have it out as soon as possible. With a minor release like this one, it has a more streamlined approval process with its primary focus not introducing new features that impact TSOs. 

I invite anyone that suggests we don't test our software rigorously before it is sent to our customers or the FAA for approval to come to either our Concord, MA or Melbourne, FL for a visit with our engineers or our manufacturing facility. We will be more than happy to give you a glimpse at what all of our releases go through both on the hardware and software side.

@thinwing PM me your full contact information, we will be happy to work out the warranty claim with your shop so that you or your shop aren't burdened by all this. Additionally, I believe you said your shop, Executive Autopilots, had been working with our Tech Support team on this issue? We have a tech support rep that has taken the lead on this issue, TJ Sutton. Can you verify that they are working with him?

Sorry that is not correct, I have send a picture at the Avidyne forum, where you can see that I have also the problems in the air, cause it can also happen in the take off run shortly before airborne :-( And thereafter you have the issue also in the air!!!

I have bought a Avidyne IFD440/540 combo and Garmin G500 in November 2017. Therefore my G500 have Vers. 7.12 at delivery!!!

In the installation Manual at this Date is nothing written about the G500 Software Version!!

I think the IFD have the best HM (Human-Machine) Interface on the market. But with also some big Technical buggs (GPS Positioning when circling with more than 35deg bank / G500 issue / Not identical Times between 440 and IFD540 on start up).

For me it is frustrating cause I have spend a lot of money, and now I have a lot of problems with the IFD.

The tech support, says for example the GPS Positioning failure is a problem of the GPS Antenna location-but on the DA40 the Antennas are on the roof and it is a "plastic" low Wing plane :-(

AVSimson you can send me a Email to my private adress oliverbucher@emilbucher.de 

Cause after the experience of my installer and myself maybe it is better than over your tec-support.

Excuse my bad english, I am from Germany.

Oliver

 

[LANCECASPER]

9 minutes ago, OliverBucher said:

Sorry that is not correct, I have send a picture at the Avidyne forum, where you can see that I have also the problems in the air, cause it can also happen in the take off run shortly before airborne :-( And thereafter you have the issue also in the air!!!

I have bought a Avidyne IFD440/540 combo and Garmin G500 in November 2017. Therefore my G500 have Vers. 7.12 at delivery!!!

In the installation Manual at this Date is nothing written about the G500 Software Version!!

I think the IFD have the best HM (Human-Machine) Interface on the market. But with also some big Technical buggs (GPS Positioning when circling with more than 35deg bank / G500 issue / Not identical Times between 440 and IFD540 on start up).

For me it is frustrating cause I have spend a lot of money, and now I have a lot of problems with the IFD.

The tech support, says for example the GPS Positioning failure is a problem of the GPS Antenna location-but on the DA40 the Antennas are on the roof and it is a "plastic" low Wing plane :-(

AVSimson you can send me a Email to my private adress oliverbucher@emilbucher.de 

Cause after the experience of my installer and myself maybe it is better than over your tec-support.

Excuse my bad english, I am from Germany.

Oliver

 

Check your install date

[OliverBucher]

6 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Check your install date

Oh - Sorry :-)

The installation was finished in November 2016 :-)

[thinwing]

Hi Oliver ,I agree ,Avidyne has the best HMI,that is why my wife purchased my IFD 540/440 in the first place...are you saying you are getting AI redxed while airborne...I've seen mine Xed out pretty late in the takeoff roll ,but never while actually airborne...good luck with your issue..

Edited June 8, 2017 by thinwing

[Marcopolo]

TW, keep in mind that Oliver is in a DA-40, built by a glider company.  He can be airborne by 45 knots or so if he tries.  And I think that is what he's saying, the red X may not disappear until airborne.

 

Ron

[OliverBucher]

5 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Oliver can you please PM me who your installer was.  Im from the UK and looking to install an avidyne soon, and ill use somewhere in Europe.  

Danke

Andrew

Hello,

my intstaller is in my view a very good Company. They do a very good job.

It is:

Flugzeugwerft Möller GmbH
Richthofenstraße 118
Flugplatz Hangelar
53757 Sankt Augustin

www.flugzeugwerft.com

Attached a picture from my cockpit

Edited June 6, 2017 by OliverBucher

[OliverBucher]

35 minutes ago, Marcopolo said:

TW, keep in mind that Oliver is in a DA-40, built by a glider company.  He can be airborne by 45 knots or so if he tries.  And I think that is what he's saying, the red X may not disappear until airborne.

 

Ron

Vr between 50kt - 60kt (depends on weight max. is 1.200kg)

Vclimb circa 80-90kt in cruise climb

TAS at 65% 125kt-135kt depends on weight and FL

Engine 180HP Lycoming IO360-M1A

[thinwing]

Hey Oliver..nice panel....I reviewed your posts on Avidyne forum and see you are running 7.12 and are having the same issues as far as red x AI on the garmin g500...you are the third reporter joining Jerry and my self so welcome to our exclusive club.First off..your data link fail will resolve once you update garmin gdl69(a) with 4.02...my tech did and that brought full XM weather to IFD 540.You mention loosing satellite lock during steep banks turns..35 degrees or better...I've have not flown any banks other than standard rate since install so can't comment.My plan for know is to revert g500 software to last known version as tested by Avidyne..I will report back when done...hopefully my tech is at my hanger right now doing just that..regards TW

n

[thinwing]

23 minutes ago, OliverBucher said:

Hello,

my intstaller is in my view a very good Company. They do a very good job.

It is:

Flugzeugwerft Möller GmbH
Richthofenstraße 118
Flugplatz Hangelar
53757 Sankt Augustin

www.flugzeugwerft.com

Attached a picture from my cockpit

Looks likes like a good shop 20 employees .. very similar outfit as Exec Autopilots

[thinwing]

57 minutes ago, Marcopolo said:

TW, keep in mind that Oliver is in a DA-40, built by a glider company.  He can be airborne by 45 knots or so if he tries.  And I think that is what he's saying, the red X may not disappear until airborne.

 

Ron

Yeah that makes sense..my Bravo can't do that

[OliverBucher]

51 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Hi Oliver ,I agree ,Avidyne gas the best HMI,that is why my wife purchased my IFD 540/440 in the first place...are you saying you are getting AI redxed while airborne...I've seen mine Xed out pretty late in the takeoff roll ,but never while actually airborne...good luck with your issue..

Attached some photos. When you are flying it is allways HDG lost with the AI "AHRS ALIGN" on the ground you will have the red "X". In the average at every 5-th flight I have this failure. Some pictures are made, when the IFD440 was in repair due to the time problem (Diffrences between IFD440 and IFD540)

[PTK]

17 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

What I don't get is being a Garmin fanatic as he is, why doesn't he have a complete Garmin suite of avionics?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Chris Aspen, I'm no more a G fanatic than you're an Aspen fanatic!  But if I was one you bet I'd be a G fanatic! But I'm waiting to see if maybe your beloved Aspen will replace those old and stale boxes with something new. Waiting for something new from Garmin as well btw.

[PTK]

19 hours ago, N6758N said:

Obviously because the KI-256 or whatever he has is more reliable than the fickle, prone to breaking Aspen/G500. Swiss watch over digital all day 

Absolutely more reliable! Flawless! Never any red x's and at the present time it suits me just fine! Besides it's a depreciating asset providing me with free cash flow!

[Marauder]

PG - I'm waiting too. FOR BOTH OF THEM. The Garmin G600 was introduced in 2006. http://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/072306a.html

The G500 was introduced in 2009 but was based on the G600. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2009/july/27/garmin-unleashes-blizzard-of-products

The Aspen? 2008. By your definition they are all oldie moldies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[PTK]

6 hours ago, AviSimpson said:

Let's clear a few things up here. I don't think we ever solely blamed Garmin for this issue. In an earlier post, I even said we are not playing the blame game...

What you said is this:

"Actually, it's the contrary, so far it's looking like a G500 update has broken the connection between the IFD and G500." 

Doesn't that sound like you are attempting to cloud the issue and deflect blame?

Then you said "...We have customers out there with the G500/600 who have a later than 6.21 software and the Release 10.2 with no issues" which is not correct. 

You certainly do sound like you are "playing the blame game!" agree? Perhaps inadvertently but you do sound like you are!

[PTK]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

PG - I'm waiting too. FOR BOTH OF THEM. The Garmin G600 was introduced in 2006. http://www8.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/072306a.html

The G500 was introduced in 2009 but was based on the G600. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2009/july/27/garmin-unleashes-blizzard-of-products

The Aspen? 2008. By your definition they are all oldie moldies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Difference is G has the technology! G3x touch for example. They just need to certify it!

[thinwing]

52 minutes ago, OliverBucher said:

Attached some photos. When you are flying it is allways HDG lost with the AI "AHRS ALIGN" on the ground you will have the red "X". In the average at every 5-th flight I have this failure. Some pictures are made, when the IFD440 was in repair due to the time problem (Diffrences between IFD440 and IFD540)

Oliver..it is your second and third photo is what we think Is IFD 10.2 related..your first and last I've seen if I don't allow the G500 10 seconds before taxi/turning on the ground.I see you are utiliy category....are  you flying acro?when this happens in flight

Edited June 6, 2017 by thinwing

[OliverBucher]

8 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Oliver..it is your second and third photo is what we think Is IFD 10.2 related..your first and last I've seen if I don't allow the G500 10 seconds before taxi/turning on the ground.I see you are utiliy category....are flying acro?when this happens in flight

I am waiting before taxi appr. 1-2 minutes after engine start (After  alligm. the AI and GPS Position is OK).

I am an Flight and IR (incl. MEP) Instructor. In EASA you must learn steep turns (45° bank) for your IR-Rating. Therefore I do it also with my students all the time. When I fly private (for my own) I practise also sometimes steep turnes. In Stuttgart one guy has the same issue at steep turns with a PA28 Arrow 4.

I use my plane also in the Utility category (air-towing). My DA40 is one with IR equipment and an air tow hook :-)

Edited June 6, 2017 by OliverBucher

[Marauder]

And Peter Garmin talks about Aspen issues. I've never seen the AHRS alignment message in 5 years of Aspen ownership.


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[thinwing]

Yeah I noticed the candy cane handle for the tow release...so how well does she tow?Out west ,we're used to 260 hp piper Pawnee D for towing 

[OliverBucher]

8 hours ago, thinwing said:

Yeah I noticed the candy cane handle for the tow release...so how well does she tow?Out west ,we're used to 260 hp piper Pawnee D for towing 

Hello,

climb rate with a Discus2b (15m Standard class) 400ft/min

Problem is at our Airfield that it is 2.250ft high and we have only 1.800ft runway lenth (60% conrete 40% gras) => Therefore no double seater like DuoDiscus, Arcus ...

It is my private plane. In my flying club we have a Robin DR400-180. With this plane it is no problem to tow double seater (also with water in the wings).

I am located at gliderfield Hornberg near Stuttgart (EDDS).  

[mike_elliott]

12 hours ago, Marauder said:

And Peter Garmin talks about Aspen issues. I've never seen the AHRS alignment message in 5 years of Aspen ownership.


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In all fairness, I have seen one Aspen issue in flight, but lets put this in prospective. I have also had failures with:

PG's beloved swiss watch KI256 and KI258 failures in flight so far = 6

Garmin G1000 in flight issues = 3

Garmin g500 issues = 0

So much for the less than authoritative reliability claims afaIac

[PTK]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

In all fairness, I have seen one Aspen issue in flight, but lets put this in prospective. I have also had failures with:

PG's beloved swiss watch KI256 and KI258 failures in flight so far = 6

Garmin G1000 in flight issues = 3

Garmin g500 issues = 0

So much for the less than authoritative reliability claims afaIac

In nine years of ownership I have had "zero" failures of my KI256 or entire KFC150 for that matter. Most recently I had Autopilots Central go over my KS177 pitch servo: 665$.

In the KCS55A I had one sensor replaced in the HSI, 325$. 

Grand total in nine years ownership: 990$. 

 

 

[MIm20c]

6 minutes ago, PTK said:

In eight years ownership I have had "zero" failures of my KI256. 

I have had one sensor replaced in my King HSI, 325$. Most recently I had Autopilots Central repair my KS177 pitch servo, 665$.

Grand total in eight years ownership: 990$. 

 

 

Can we safely assume if you had 6 failures behind a BK AI you would have problems trusting one?