Checklists, checklists,checklists

[Danb]

Do we use them ALL the time, why should we I know my plane, really.

Lesson 1- use your checklist for everything 

**a trip from Gulfport Ms. to Wilmington,De, a mere 905 kmiles no problem. Weather checked, plane checked, pilot well ok, let's pack and go 7:00AM local departure time. Wife a little out of sorts don't worry we'll leave a little later. Ok off to airport, went to pay for fuel oops we didn't fill you up Mr B, ok fill it up. Preflight plane packed go pay for fuel, it's a little later I wonder if those storms will stay west of our course? Ok we're going, get CRAFT from the nice tower guys, use my takeoff checklist, my wife closes the door, that's not on my list, I fumble a little, Gulfport tower 423PS ready for Runway 14, all's good ----silence, not really first time for everything--- Gulfport tower aaaah my doors open, I'd like to return, left traffic cleared to land, jeez I never landed over 3200 lbs. I'll carry more power, wow lands nice and soft heavy. Close door, pump it up following my door procedures, Fran don't touch the door I'll get it. Lesson one use your damn checklist.

Lesson 2 use your checklist for everything 

**Ok Gulfport tower is it ok to stay here on 14 until I check my door, sure no ones coming in, get back to me when ready, boy Fran she's a nice lady.  Gulfport tower 423PS ready to go 14, your still in the system cleared for takeoff. GD the stall horns blasting I'm a weak old man now, using my muscles, well what's left of them, crap I didn't trim the plane,or use my departure checklist for departure. Got it re-trimmed off we go. Did NOT use my checklist for after landing, just hurried up

Only 5 hours to go, lot's of time left to ponder what went wrong, why and what could in the next 5 hours. Luckily nothing out of the norm.

After 30 years of flying, we're still learning, need to adhere to all our experience, all of our training and especially those lifesaving damn Checklists. 

Lesson learned use your damn CHECKLIST 

Anything you all can provide by not useingn of those things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1964-M20E]

I agree.  I fly several different aircraft and use the check list.  Like you the times I did not I usually missed something.  Trim for takeoff is a good one I've missed before for the same reasons.

It is easy to get distracted.

 

[Marauder]

Dan - thanks for sharing. I think many owners get lulled into believing they know their plane well enough that a checklist becomes a secondary activity. I have been in planes where the pilot walks through the checklist and misses items on it. And some of those items would have been critical depending on the nature of the flight.

I subscribe to the flow method of pointing and/or touching everything on the panel backed up with a checklist. Even then a distraction could raise havoc.


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[midlifeflyer]

If you haven't, check out Guido Warneke's YouTube videos. I swear, the man makes checklist use an art form.

[bradp]

I love guido when he chides his students in a very subtle but effective way.  Seeing him and his co-captain flying the Citation is like checklist zen. 

This weekend I've asked my wife to read through the foreflight checklists (converted the POH and the checklist that I've been using).  I also like the foreflight checklist is it's very easily editable.  I kept forgetting to reset the fuel totalizer - about 15 seconds later it's now a checklist item.  

 

[Hank]

I was bitten by the checklist bug as a new Mooney pilot, taking a buddy to ride. Taxied back and forgot to reset the trim and flaps, almost levitated into the air, stiff-arming the yoke whole I spun the trim wheel. Kind of cemented it in my mind, if you know what I mean!

[Danb]

I couldn't agree more, I missed my two items through 1 a distraction- my bride helping with the door, and 2 landing on an instrument flight plan, hurrying up not to bother the controller and being pissed off messing up the door order.

Distractions at the wrong time can be a killer, the sad part is I believe in a clean cockpit environment and use my checklist religiously. I totally trying to reason my errors. Luckily I'm here and can learn from it.

 

 

[RLCarter]

59 minutes ago, Danb said:

Distractions at the wrong time can be a killer, the sad part is I believe in a clean cockpit environment and use my checklist religiously. I totally trying to reason my errors. Luckily I'm here and can learn from it.

I was told along time ago "Learn from others mistakes, you wont live long enough to make them all yourself" I'm currently working on my Commercial, my CFII has made a copy of the check list and follows along as I read aloud and touch everything I can on the list. One issue on the older birds is the list isn't very thorough and we have added to it several times but the original items have remained unchanged 

[carusoam]

Thank you Dan.  

It really is tough being a human.

 

Thanks to hank too,  there is a growing number of electronic things that are getting accumulated into a new checklist for electronics....

• Fuel totalizer reset, gallons added...
• ADSB in plugged in...
• ipad on and wifi connected to show all the ADSB traffic and weather...
• ipad recording flight in WingX...
• ipad recording flight details in CloudAhoy.
• CO detector max level and reset.
• Electronic flight plan things.

Thank you gents. 

The small changes seam to collect over time, and remembering all the changes doesn't get easier with time... 

  

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited May 21, 2017 by carusoam

[201er]

Never EVER EVER let your passenger close the door in your Mooney. Not even if they're another pilot! I have never had a door pop when I closed it but the 2 times I've had a door pop, it was always when someone else closed it or had some sort of involvement in the process!

Edited May 21, 2017 by 201er

[Danb]

Mike I couldn't agree more, might have been one of the only times in 30 years, it totally messed up my mindset, so simple but------

[Danb]

Obviously it will occur on an Ifr flight plan in low conditions at least not under minimums.

[201er]

Just now, Danb said:

Mike I couldn't agree more, might have been one of the only times in 30 years, it totally messed up my mindset, so simple but------

You wouldn't let a passenger land the plane, likewise you shouldn't let them close the door. The other thing passengers are notorious for screwing up is kicking the emergency gear extension latch between the seats. Don't be surprised the gear won't go up. This can happen when passengers get in or even after you've dropped passengers off (on the way out). Been there, done that. I've gotten into the habit of reaching down to check the gear latch when I reach to check the fuel selector.

[midlifeflyer]

Great discussion.

Especially when we start talking about new systems, avionics, totalizers, one of the things we need to deal with is increasing checklist complexity, which to me means decreasing checklist usefulness. I fly a number of different airplanes with different equipment, which makes the problem worse. 

One thing I'm trying to do to help is to keep the Normal Operations checklist relatively Spartan. Essentials only, but with other pages for detail. So, for example, my Normal checklist has "totalizers set" but there are separate pages for the difference totalizers I encounter with the instructions to set them. Sort of a personal quick reference POH.

Well see how well it works. The idea came from some airline pilots who have shown checklists so much simpler and cleaned than many I see in GA use. 

[Yetti]

I have read things on the checklist and then missed them.  I like flows better.  Start between the seats then up and right and then across to the left.  I think you can check more things with less distraction.  You can spend visual time on each gauge or switch and ensure it is where it is supposed to be.   Kind of like the line in the check list of "check flight instruments"

[RLCarter]

28 minutes ago, Yetti said:

 I like flows better.  Start between the seats then up and right and then across to the left.  I think you can check more things with less distraction.  

My check lists are modified so they are more fluid, nothing has been removed from the original POH version, but a lot has been added

[Hank]

39 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

My check lists are modified so they are more fluid, nothing has been removed from the original POH version, but a lot has been added

I removed a lot of things from the one in my Owners Manual. I think "Radio--ON and Set" a couple of times is no longer applicable now that there is an Avionics Master Switch that has been added. Same for turning the radios off before shutdown. And I moved some things around to suit me. Etc., etc.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Hank

[midlifeflyer]

9 hours ago, Yetti said:

I have read things on the checklist and then missed them.  I like flows better.  Start between the seats then up and right and then across to the left.  I think you can check more things with less distraction.  You can spend visual time on each gauge or switch and ensure it is where it is supposed to be.   Kind of like the line in the check list of "check flight instruments"

Flows and checklists are both subject to distraction error, so I think the best combination is both. Flow pattern for exactly the reasons you mention, but followed by a review of the checklist for confirmation or missed items. 

 

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

I removed a lot of things from the one in my Owners Manual. I think "Radio--ON and Set" a couple of times is no longer applicable now that there is an Avionics Master Switch that has been added. Same for turning the radios off before shutdown. And I moved some things around to suit me. Etc., etc.

Me too. Checking for free and correct controls is before I even start the engine. And I'm pretty sure I won't forget to add power for takeoff

[ArtVandelay]

I've added,subtracted as required, For example I removed the ram air so don't need those items, and first item on my hot start checklist is "receipt", since I was leaving the fuel receipts as the self serve pumps. I also have everything on 1 laminated page, key items are highlighted.

[FloridaMan]

Turning onto the runway, I have three distinct mental checklists I use in addition to all the paper ones -- sortof like an immediately before takeoff GUMPS check. I take out the paper checklists at the appropriate phases of flight, but there are things that happen where you can be rushed. Dropping someone off right before weather comes in, having to hold short for an extended period where you lean the mixture, et cetera. 

1) Verify Flaps, Trim, and Fuel Selector.

2) Check switches, transponder, frequencies. 

3) Prop, Mixture, and Throttle. 

On the roll...

Airspeed is alive, instruments are in the green. 

[FloridaMan]

On 5/21/2017 at 6:25 PM, 201er said:

Never EVER EVER let your passenger close the door in your Mooney. Not even if they're another pilot! I have never had a door pop when I closed it but the 2 times I've had a door pop, it was always when someone else closed it or had some sort of involvement in the process!

They also like to ignore the "DO NOT SLAM DOOR" placard. 

[Buster1]

You guys ever read The Checklist Manifesto? It's a great book (I'm not affiliated w/ it).

http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/

it describes how modern medicine now uses checklists during surgical procedures, etc. It talks about how they get and develop checklists for the OR from pilots and such. Pretty neat book, and a good discussion of how you can make checklists for lots of stuff in your personal life, and avoid errors.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Buster1

[Tom]

There's an old joke in surgery about leaving sponges in the patient.  You always count the sponges before closing the skin to make sure you don't leave a sponge in.  But, still, rarely a sponge is left in.  So, when a sponge was left in, what was the count?  [of course it was normal]

The Aero-glass technology seems like a nearly fool-proof manner to run checklists.  In the meantime, I'm flow first, checklist second kind of person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRNMLFlfP0

 

[slowflyin]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

There's an old joke in surgery about leaving sponges in the patient.  You always count the sponges before closing the skin to make sure you don't leave a sponge in.  But, still, rarely a sponge is left in.  So, when a sponge was left in, what was the count?  [of course it was normal]

The Aero-glass technology seems like a nearly fool-proof manner to run checklists.  In the meantime, I'm flow first, checklist second kind of person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRNMLFlfP0

 

+1 Flow then check