New Listing

[Roger O]

Hi, did anyone see this new listing on Trade A Plane? https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C+RANGER&listing_id=2266087&s-type=aircraft. 

I'm interested in your comments/opinions.

Thanks!

[jrwilson]

Pretty high total time; well over tbo (not required of course, but still...), dated avionics, average everything else...  really high (firm) price for an unimpressive plane...

[KSMooniac]

Looks decent but way overpriced for a runout engine and vintage panel and autopilot.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

[Skates97]

Just now, jrwilson said:

Pretty high total time; well over tbo (not required of course, but still...), dated avionics, average everything else...  really high (firm) price for an unimpressive plane...

Is the engine really run out?

In the General Specs under the Engine Overhaul Time they list 2,443. Down lower in the ad it says 678 Hours Since Factory Overhaul. Seems like perhaps they just don't know how to write an ad.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, Skates97 said:

Is the engine really run out?

In the General Specs under the Engine Overhaul Time they list 2,443. Down lower in the ad it says 678 Hours Since Factory Overhaul. Seems like perhaps they just don't know how to write an ad.

I agree that the ad is poorly worded with non-standard abbreviations. I suspect the engine is 678 SMOH, not sure whether that was by Lycoming. So it's a clean looking, late model C that looks to have been well cared for. Certainly not a hangar queen at 6700+ TT.

[KSMooniac]

I missed the note on engine overhaul, but I still feel it is overpriced... For that price it ought to have an IFR GPS at a minimum, maybe some speed mods too. The metal 3-blade prop is a negative for me, but not everyone.

High TT doesn't bother me so long as maintenance is good...this one seems like it was cared-for but needs to be checked of course. The panel really hurts the value....a pair of 40 year old radios isn't great.

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[Roger O]

 You guys are really terrific!  Thanks for your opinions.  Given the condition as listed (assuming no major issues on a PPI), what should a fair price be?

[jrwilson]

$34,000

[Bob_Belville]

3 minutes ago, Sherman18 said:

 You guys are really terrific!  Thanks for your opinions.  Given the condition as listed (assuming no major issues on a PPI), what should a fair price be?

Depending upon your mission, I don't think it is terribly far off. You're not likely going to need to spend money on engine, paint, or interior so if the panel which is fine for VFR non certified GPS flying suits your needs you should be good. Many folks flying Cs do not need to shoot GPS approaches.

[gsxrpilot]

I wouldn't give more than $40K for it. At $35K it would be a good buy... assuming it gets a clean bill of health from Maxwell.

[Roger O]

Just spoke with the guy, he said the "firm" price was an error, and is willing to come down a bit,  I asked for more pictures and logs.  We'll see...

[orionflt]

has one hell of a damage history to it, A couple of gear ups and struck a power line. way over priced!

 

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1986-04-26		Aircraft Make	MOONEY
Aircraft Model	M20C		Damage	MINOR
Document Last Modified	2012-08-08
Narrative	RETURNED FOR LANDING WHEN PILOT THOUGHT HE SMELLED SMOKE. GEAR NOT EXTENDED UNTIL PROPELLER STRUCK RUNWAY.
------- NTBS Accident 1 -------
Event Date	2004-03-12		Aircraft Make	Mooney
Aircraft Model	M20C		Aircraft Serial Number	21-1191
Damage	SUBS
Probably Cause	the pilot's improper in-flight planning and decision making during an instrument approach resulting in the pilot's intentional descent below approach minimums, and the pilot's failure to maintain obstacle clearance resulting in the in-flight collision with an object. Contributing factors include the dark night light conditions, and the wires.
Prelimenary Narrative	On March 12, 2004, at approximately 2120 mountain standard time, a Mooney M20C, N6958V, was substantially damaged when it struck a power transmission line during final approach to Clovis Municipal Airport (CVN), Clovis, New Mexico. The private pilot, the sole occupant on board, was not injured. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed. An instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed for this personal flight being conducted under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The flight originated at Winslow, Arizona, at approximately 1800, and was en route to Ardmore, Oklahoma. According to the pilot, at 11,000 feet msl, at a point just west of Clovis, he encountered rime icing conditions. At approximately 2110, he requested, and was given, clearance to descend to 8,000 feet msl. He stated that after he received the local weather conditions, he decided to divert to CVN. He stated that the weather conditions at CVN were reported as, ceiling, 100 feet; visibility, 4 miles; and wind, 165 degrees at 6 knots. At approximately 2115, the pilot contacted Cannon Approach Control and requested vectors to CVN. He was given vectors for runway 04. The pilot stated that, at approximately 4,400 feet msl, while established on the glide slope and localizer, he struck something, and all radio communication was lost. At 2120, the pilot initiated a missed approach. The pilot stated that he flew around for 1 hour. At approximately 2220, Cannon Approach "came back on," however, radio communication was intermittent. At that time, while on a heading of 240 degrees, Cannon Approach gave him vectors to Cannon Air Force Base (CVS), which was 270 degrees from his position. After responding to Cannon Approach, by transponder indent, he was directed to runway 22 at CVS. He stated that he "broke out" of the clouds at approximately 200 to 300 feet agl, on a "45 degree" to runway 22. At 2230, he landed at CVS without further incident. An FAA inspector, who examined the airplane, stated that several scratches were located along the bottom of the aft fuselage and empennage. These "braided" scratches were similar to scratches associated with power transmission line contact. Several areas exhibited burns and "arcing." The wire strike resulted in substantial damage to the aft fuselage bulkhead and lower tail cone assembly. According to a member services representative from Farmers' Electric Cooperative, Inc., of New Mexico (FEC), on the evening of March 12, 2004, a customer, who lived near the Clovis Municipal Airport, called in to report a power outage that had occurred at approximately 2130 mst. An FEC lineman surveyed the area and located a blown line fuse. The line fuse was "refused" and power was restored at 2223. On March 15, 2004, after receiving reports that a low flying airplane had struck wires in the vicinity of the airport, another FEC lineman conducting a follow-up inspection, located a set of damaged power lines approximately 1/4 of a mile to the right of the runway centerline and approximately 1/4 of a mile south of the approach for runway 04. The lineman stated that it appeared the low flying airplane had struck the top phase, 14,000 volt, #2 ACSR conductor wire. The impact stretched the conductor wire, breaking the smaller stranded (braided) wires, but leaving the conductor wire intact. Although the conductor wire remained intact, the power outage was the result of a "direct short," caused by the top phase conductor wire's contact with another phase wire. At the point where the damage occurred, the top phase wire was approximately 27 feet, 3 inches, above the ground.
Final Narrative	According to the pilot, at 11,000 feet msl, while on a cross-country IMC flight, he encountered rime icing conditions. He requested, and was given, clearance to descend to 8,000 feet msl. He stated that he received the local weather conditions and decided to divert to a nearby airport. He stated that the airport weather conditions were reported as: ceiling, 100 feet; visibility, 4 miles; and wind, 165 degrees at 6 knots. After contacting the local approach control, he requested and received vectors for runway 04. He stated that, at approximately 4,400 feet msl, while established on the glide slope and localizer, he struck something, and all radio communication was lost. The pilot immediately initiated a missed approach. Approximately 1 hour later, he reestablished radio contact with the local approach control. Approach control gave him vectors to runway 22 at another nearby airport. He stated that he "broke out" of the clouds at approximately 200 to 300 feet agl, on a "45 degree" to runway 22. At 2230, he landed at without further incident. An examination of the airplane revealed several scratches along the bottom of the aft fuselage and empennage. These "braided" scratches were similar to scratches associated with contacting a power transmission line. Several areas on the bottom of the airplane exhibited burns and "arcing." The airplane received substantial damage to the aft fuselage bulkhead and lower tail cone assembly.
------- NTBS Accident 2 -------
Event Date	1994-10-21		Aircraft Make	MOONEY
Aircraft Model	M20C		Aircraft Serial Number	20-1191
Damage	SUBS
Probably Cause	INADVERTENT LANDING GEAR RETRACTION BY THE PILOT FLYING THE AIRCRAFT. A FACTOR WAS INADEQUATE SUPERVISION BY THE FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR.
Prelimenary Narrative	On October 21, 1994, at 0905 mountain daylight time, a Mooney M20C, N6958V, sustained substantial damage during takeoff at Greeley-Weld County Airport, Greeley, Colorado. The two pilots were not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for this local instructional flight and no flight plan was filed. According to both pilots, they were conducting touch and go landings with the pilot in the left seat under instruction and flying the aircraft. During takeoff roll, on a touch-and-go, and after applying takeoff power, the pilot under instruction inadvertently retracted the landing gear instead of the flaps.
Final Narrative	DURING TAKEOFF ROLL, ON A TOUCH-AND-GO LANDING, THE PILOT UNDER INSTRUCTION INADVERTENTLY RAISED THE LANDING GEAR INSTEAD OF THE FLAPS.

[Roger O]

If all of the repairs were done well, other than a discount in price, would you still buy this plane?

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, Sherman18 said:

If all of the repairs were done well, other than a discount in price, would you still buy this plane?

I'd take a regularly flown airplane with substantial but correctly repaired damage, rather than a no-damage history hangar queen any day.

[orionflt]

an electrical hit thru the fuselage can do funky stuff to avionics, even though most of the avionics need updating. no I wouldn't

 

[gsxrpilot]

So the power line accident was almost exactly 13 years ago.  Assuming the repair is all properly documented... and the plane has been flown regularly for the last 13 years... I don't see the problem.

[Roger O]

As Paul said, if I buy the plane, Don Maxwell will do the PPI.  I trust his knowledge and judgment, and am confident that his findings will be valid.  Am waiting for more pics and the logs before I do anything else.  Interesting, the seller said he has sold 3 planes to date, yet when I mentioned getting the plane to Texas for Maxwell, he seemed confused and didn't know how that would be accomplished...

[orionflt]

also find out why the current owner is selling it, 3 people have owned it since the electrical incident, the last one just over a year.

 

Brian

[Roger O]

Brian, really good point.  The plane has changed hands enough times recently to lead me to ask what's going on. 

I also want to ask everyone once again if they have or know of a good c or e with electric gear and a 2 axis A/P for sale to please let me know by pm.

Thanks again!

Roger

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, Sherman18 said:

Brian, really good point.  The plane has changed hands enough times recently to lead me to ask what's going on. 

I also want to ask everyone once again if they have or know of a good c or e with electric gear and a 2 axis A/P for sale to please let me know by pm.

I really think you're going about this exactly the right way.  Keep an eye out on the Internet for planes as they come up for sale. Interrogate all of them and bring them here for the peanut gallery to beat up and weigh in on.  The more planes you investigate, the better you'll know the market, which will likely lead to a better decision in the end.

[Roger O]

By the way, I just got an email from the seller saying that I'd better be serious about the plane because 3 of my friends called to ask him questions about it for me...  That would be you guys!  I can't believe the well wishes, camaraderie and caring from all you for a fellow Mooney driver. 

MooneySpace is the best flying club anywhere! 

[peevee]

You're not going to find a perfect snowflake of a plane of that vintage but that one has enough damage history and quick turnover recently along with the price, I wouldn't even consider it.

[Mcstealth]

11 hours ago, Sherman18 said:

If all of the repairs were done well, other than a discount in price, would you still buy this plane?

It is a matter of perspective. What are you comfortable with?

it seems you could do better in a C my opinion. 

[Roger O]

Thanks!  Actually, I have abandoned this plane because of my many concerns.  I am currently looking seriously at a '65 E.  Will keep you posted.

[Mooneymite]

One aspect of this plane that no one commented on was "always hangared".

If that's true, that is worth a great deal in my experience.  Aircraft that have spent a great deal of time in the weather age a lot faster than the tach time indicates.