M20J down, California

[wishboneash]

Came across this just minutes ago.. Seems to have gone down 6 days ago in the Lake Hughes area which is rather rugged terrain. Sad to hear about the pilot's demise.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-body-plane-wreckage-found-angeles-national-forest-20170118-story.html

 

[Hank]

So sad . . . Makes me curious how it happened. Seems like he tried to slow down, ran between trees like we're taught to do and sheared off the wings. Must have been moving too fast.

[SantosDumont]

Didn't know him but he was based at my field.  Bad weather last week, heavy rain. I ended up driving to San Diego instead of flying.  Could have been VFR into IMC. 

[MHemperly]

1 hour ago, SantosDumont said:

Didn't know him but he was based at my field.  Bad weather last week, heavy rain. I ended up driving to San Diego instead of flying.  Could have been VFR into IMC. 

That's exactly what I was thinking. The article says no flight plan. Very sad! I fly this route quite a bit

Mike

[SantosDumont]

Yeah I really have no idea what he was thinking. I was driving home from San Diego and rain was smacking my windshield so hard I couldn't even see. Couldn't imagine trying to fly through that. 

[kortopates]

More comprehensive information source here but apparently :

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/01/mooney-m20j-fatal-accident-occurred.html

Although what happened isn't all that clear other than likely VFR into IMC. One thing it illustrates all too well is that days can go by when a plane goes down without a flight plan filed. The planes was believed to depart KTSP on Thursday morning the 12th headed for KTOA, and the search effort didn't even begin till Tuesday evening the 17th and then found the wreckage site morning; apparently an hour after they started looking this morning, Wednesday the 18th.

These days it's so easy to activate and close a VFR flight plan on the runyway with a smart phone by clicking in an email message or text message. No radio calls  necessary, just the click of button with data access on your phone or ipad. But it makes so much difference from a SAR perspective. It may not have made any difference in this scenario except for the pilots family. But imagine surviving the accident only to perish from lack of timely first aid because no one was looking for you. Flight following won't get the search team out either unless you get a mayday off. 

[Piloto]

Wonder what type of  ELT was onboard. Since the CAP was involved in the search they would have heard the 121.5 MHz signal from the ELT. The ELT could have made the difference if he survived the impact. I never heard on the news a plane found by the ELT but by visual search.

José

[carusoam]

Any info regarding who the pilot is? Tail number?  MS member?

prayers,

-a-

 

[RobertGary1]

It's not really feasible to determine flight weather with much accuracy by driving. Hard rain doesn't stop me from flying. For flying you're looking more at freezing levels, TSs, etc. I've flown through rain that was intense and it's not too big of an issue other than some turb. Even the turb and winds at altitude are going to differ from what is on the ground. Depends on the pilots experience, rating etc. Cant arm chair this fairly from a minivan on the highway.  

[bonal]

Whatever the cause or circumstances  the outcome still the same very sad. Condolences and prayers to the left behind.

[glenn reynolds]

4 hours ago, Piloto said:

Wonder what type of  ELT was onboard. Since the CAP was involved in the search they would have heard the 121.5 MHz signal from the ELT. The ELT could have made the difference if he survived the impact. I never heard on the news a plane found by the ELT but by visual search.

José

Jose, while I was on vacation, flying Alaska there was an ongoing search for a missing plane and every time we briefed the briefer asked us to look for the plane. As this went on for three weeks I spoke to lots of folks about elt and far to many made this comment: "elt?  Of no use, first thing to break in a crash is the elt antenna and we can't get a signal". The search and rescue guys did however Iike the units like "spot" for two reasons: first even if the transmitter is distroyed searchers know where you were within ten minutes of crash. Second reason, if you and the  transmitter survives the crash spot shows any movement and thus rescue efforts roll as opossed to recover efforts. Our next Alaska trip will use one of the spot like units

[NotarPilot]

I'm asking the wife for a PLB for my birthday.

[takair]

8 hours ago, kortopates said:

More comprehensive information source here but apparently :

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/01/mooney-m20j-fatal-accident-occurred.html

Although what happened isn't all that clear other than likely VFR into IMC. One thing it illustrates all too well is that days can go by when a plane goes down without a flight plan filed. The planes was believed to depart KTSP on Thursday morning the 12th headed for KTOA, and the search effort didn't even begin till Tuesday evening the 17th and then found the wreckage site morning; apparently an hour after they started looking this morning, Wednesday the 18th.

These days it's so easy to activate and close a VFR flight plan on the runyway with a smart phone by clicking in an email message or text message. No radio calls  necessary, just the click of button with data access on your phone or ipad. But it makes so much difference from a SAR perspective. It may not have made any difference in this scenario except for the pilots family. But imagine surviving the accident only to perish from lack of timely first aid because no one was looking for you. Flight following won't get the search team out either unless you get a mayday off. 

Paul

i'm feeling pretty ignorant right now reference activating AND cancelling flight plan via iPhone.  I understand filing via ForeFlight, but have to admit I've never thought about the opening and closing part.  At my old airport, it was almost automatic to have flight following, but at my current airport it is more of a chore.  Would you mind pointing me in the right direction...perhaps I'm not the only one unaware of this.  Thanks...

[mike_elliott]

So terribly sad. If anyone has the immediate family contact info, please send it to alice.elliott at mooneysummit.com or PM DEB here on Mooneyspace so that we can offer our assistance.

[mooniac15u]

7 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

It's not really feasible to determine flight weather with much accuracy by driving. Hard rain doesn't stop me from flying. For flying you're looking more at freezing levels, TSs, etc. I've flown through rain that was intense and it's not too big of an issue other than some turb. Even the turb and winds at altitude are going to differ from what is on the ground. Depends on the pilots experience, rating etc. Cant arm chair this fairly from a minivan on the highway.  

Do you fly VFR through hard rain?

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

Do you fly VFR through hard rain?

Yes. Sometimes. Nothing about rain in the mins. 

-Robert

[mooniac15u]

1 minute ago, RobertGary1 said:

Yes. Sometimes. Nothing about rain in the mins. 

-Robert

That's right but visibility does matter and @SantosDumont told us about low visibility due to the hard rain.

[flyboy0681]

We are a very small family and each loss of a Mooney hits home. Sometimes we know the victims, most of the time not, but it still hurts when we lose a ship.

[Piloto]

7 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I'm asking the wife for a PLB for my birthday.

For my 65 birthday my wife gave me a life insurance enrollment.

José

[flyboy0681]

Just now, Piloto said:

For my 65 birthday my wife gave me a life insurance enrollment.

José

Unless it's the $5k policy available through AOPA, it will state in very large bold letters that benefits won't be paid out for private pilots who die while behind the controls.

[Piloto]

3 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Unless it's the $5k policy available through AOPA, it will state in very large bold letters that benefits won't be paid out for private pilots who die while behind the controls.

I think my chances of going kaput are much greater on the road or on the toilet. BTW it is a $1M insurance enrollment, no questions ask.

José

[gsxrpilot]

20 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

Unless it's the $5k policy available through AOPA, it will state in very large bold letters that benefits won't be paid out for private pilots who die while behind the controls.

There are lots of life insurance policies that will cover pilots and don't have exclusions for GA. AOPA is only one of the many options.

[flyboy0681]

10 minutes ago, Piloto said:

I think my chances of going kaput are much greater on the road or on the toilet. BTW it is a $1M insurance enrollment, no questions ask.

José

Well, I've always said that I wanted to die in bed at 90 by the hands of a jealous husband.

I need to speak to your broker, all of my policies have a clause excluding coverage as a private pilot.

 

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

That's right but visibility does matter and @SantosDumont told us about low visibility due to the hard rain.

I think the issue is visibility and not rain. Plenty in the regs about visibility, regardless of the cause. And nothing about rain.

[Skates97]

8 hours ago, glenn reynolds said:

Jose, while I was on vacation, flying Alaska there was an ongoing search for a missing plane and every time we briefed the briefer asked us to look for the plane. As this went on for three weeks I spoke to lots of folks about elt and far to many made this comment: "elt?  Of no use, first thing to break in a crash is the elt antenna and we can't get a signal". The search and rescue guys did however Iike the units like "spot" for two reasons: first even if the transmitter is distroyed searchers know where you were within ten minutes of crash. Second reason, if you and the  transmitter survives the crash spot shows any movement and thus rescue efforts roll as opossed to recover efforts. Our next Alaska trip will use one of the spot like units

I don't know what it is like there now, but we lived there from 1980-84 and my dad flew HC-130's out of Elmendorf with the Air Rescue Squadron (before the Coast Guard took over Search and Rescue stuff). He's told many stories about searches for downed planes, hearing the ELT, and making multiple passes over the area until they found it. Without the ELT they never would have found the plane. He just recently finished reading a book called "Looking for Alaska" and in it the writer talks about a plane wreckage up on the side of a mountain in Miller's Pass. My dad was flying a training mission through Miller's Pass when they heard an ELT. They made multiple runs up and down the pass looking in the bottom before noticing the plane up on the side of the mountain. They called in the helicopters and PJ's and the pilot was saved. Without the ELT that pilot would have died up there, nobody was even looking for him at the time. Of course back then there wasn't any technology like the spot units. I'm all for using every bit of technology there is available.

4 hours ago, takair said:

Paul

i'm feeling pretty ignorant right now reference activating AND cancelling flight plan via iPhone.  I understand filing via ForeFlight, but have to admit I've never thought about the opening and closing part.  At my old airport, it was almost automatic to have flight following, but at my current airport it is more of a chore.  Would you mind pointing me in the right direction...perhaps I'm not the only one unaware of this.  Thanks...

Not sure what Paul uses, but if you sign up and file it on www.1800wxbrief.com you have the option of opening and closing a flight plan through text or email. I have an Android tablet and use DroidEFB which will send my plan to 1800wxbrief.com, I don't know about Apple and Foreflight but I would assume that it integrates as well. You can sign up for alerts about your route and get them sent via email or text. You also will get an email/text prior to your planned departure time with a hotlink in it that you can click to activate and then close your flight plan. It's a pretty cool service.