Abysmal Commercial Pilot

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I find the flow technique complements the usage of checklists as you suggest.

I am however still one of those, there pilots who does a "gear down & locked" call on final. Just a little reminder for myself.
 

 

I also find Flow to work well with checklists. As I did as a student, when I bought the Mooney I sat down with the Owners Manual and wrote my own checklist, then revised it to include things in the cockpit (I.e., replaced "Radios--On" with "Avionics Master--On", etc.).

Unlike the 172, my Mooney checklists wouldn't fit nicely onto one piece of paper front and back. So I made a booklet, printed landscape and folded in half, that is an exact fit for my kneeboard. Lots of space there, so I added a title page with name, date and N number; no sections are split across two pages; and I even added the Performance Tables so I don't have to use the fragile, browning Owners Manual in flight (but it's in the seat back pocket just in case anyway). My wife has a cold laminating machine, which is soft enough to fold, so I ran the final version through that, folded it in half and sewed it together, my very own personalized checklist book.

That said, once I'm in the air, it's mostly check the book, set power and lean. The Landing checklist is part of my panel, and backlit at night, but it's mostly flow there, too. If the gear ain't down, I'm either not coming down or not slowing down . . . I call it going down and wait for the thump, then check the switch on base, and on final verify the floor indicator as well. Sometimes I even recheck the switch and green light in the flare . . .

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Andy, actually I am a "checklist guy".  I was beaten up in the Navy, I matured at the airlines and post-airline am still employed "doing checklists".  I believe in checklists and I use them both at work and in my Mooney.  Yes, flows work and are great for getting everything done, but they work differently than a checklist.  Flows and checklists work together, not in lieu of one another in the operations I'm familiar with.

My comment about "Gear Down....everything else is a detail" was a humorous attempt 

Sorry I didn't get the humor.

I'm an "in between" guy, then.  At work, it is always exactly by the checklists and flows that the company dictates.  Particularly when flying with a new F/O, it is essential that everything is as predictable as possible.

When I take someone flying, particularly someone new to flying, I pull out my laminated checklist and do my GUMP-FL out loud so they can see me using the checklist.  On the rare occasions I instruct in a Cessna or Piper, I insist on seeing the student use the checklist.

When I'm by myself, I fly the airplane.  My checklist is opened to the Emergencies section just in case, and there is no question I would use it for anything out of the ordinary.

[Andy95W]

28 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I am however still one of those, there pilots who does a "gear down & locked" call on final. Just a little reminder for myself.
 

 

Same here, and I do it out loud even when I'm alone.

And when my Garmin says "500" into my headset (for 500 AGL), I use that also to verify that the gear is down and that I am stable.  If not, I go around and try again.

[201er]

I stumbled across this article in a Namibia newspaper at a gas station. A timely addition to this (original) discussion. It basically talks about the lack of qualifications and racist (or affirmative action, whatever you want to call it) selection process. It doesn't mention corruption but I am sure it plays a huge part. Our guide here said that their tour company avoids sending their tourists on Namibia airlines because of the poor safety practices.

[Mooneymite]

38 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I knew you were joking big guy. I did my primary at a 141 school and the checklist usage was drilled into me. 
 

 

I see the difference now between civilian and military training.  You were drilled; I was beaten.  

The Marine instructors in the back seat were particularly effective instructors.  They had an uncanny ability to hit the back of one's helmet with their knee board and retrieve it on the bounce.  When I was issued my helmet, I thought it was to protect me in case of a crash.....later I learned it was to protect me from this instructional technique.  

[thinwing]

No obvious use of checklist,no mag check,downwind takeoff ,grumpy pilot ..sounds like standard bush pilot to me.If 201er had engaged the pilot his answers may have been...we don't do ground mag checks,this is a dirt runway and it damages the prop and clogs the air cleaner....downwind takeoff...we are 400 under gross,it's only 7 kts and more importantly those little no see um thorn plants down at the turn around have caused 20 flat tires this year.Dg...yeah it worthless with a 10 degree precession per 1/2 hour runtime.Magenta line..it's just a bloody reminder  and the tourists love to see the modern shit.I flown this route 300 times this year and there is a house thermal right were the line crosses the river..we go off course by the reeds so I don't have to cleanup all the tourist puke.Fly a Mooney huh...that's pretty comical..one would last about a week on these unimproved strips and all our tourists would have to be midgets.African condor avoidance!Are You  a bird brain?You try that and you will be wearing that raptors beak in your rime hole!They always dive...we don't do a thing!Stall warner blaring!Yeah..we like to touch down slow and easy ,1.2 vso which that thing is right on!Hey did you hear the one about the tourists actually tried to drive out of here.They wound up in the river after bandits with Aks high jacked them for their tennis shoes!They was scared to fly!

[thinwing]

One of my better ones..don't you think?

[carusoam]

Like it came from a Movie Script, TW! 

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

Thanks c

[KLRDMD]

On 1/8/2017 at 10:34 PM, carusoam said:

My travel experience in less wealthy countries... other cars don't have headlights even after dark.  Motorcycles fill the spaces between you and the car in the other lane.  Alcohol is still used in moderation prior to driving. The first world has luxuries that the second world just doesn't have, yet....

A few years ago I had an anesthesia resident with me on a Flying Samaritans trip (highly recommended BTW, I should start another thread about them) and we were in very rural Mexico on the Baja. She asked me where the nearest level I trauma center was. I said . . . San Diego ?

It is a great experience doing those trips but it is an entirely different world than the US.

[gsxrpilot]

11 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

It is a great experience doing those trips but it is an entirely different world than the US.

When I was a kid, my parents were missionaries in Ethiopia. It was during a very rough time for Ethiopia and we were some of the very few Americans not expelled by the communist dictator at the time. It gave me the travel bug for sure.  And I can say after 64 countries, I've found things in each country that is better than here in the US and then there are always things that are not nearly as good. The one thing is for sure, is that the more I travel and the more countries I visit, the more people seem to be exactly the same everywhere I go.

Coming up in Feb I'll be in Singapore, Vietnam, and China.

[thinwing]

20 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

A few years ago I had an anesthesia resident with me on a Flying Samaritans trip (highly recommended BTW, I should start another thread about them) and we were in very rural Mexico on the Baja. She asked me where the nearest level I trauma center was. I said . . . San Diego ?

It is a great experience doing those trips but it is an entirely different world than the US.

Years before the San Quintin clinic was improved..we did basic oral surgery ,eye glass dispense from a big box featuring 400 donated eye glasses..great times..you probably did EL Fluerte...

[KLRDMD]

1 minute ago, thinwing said:

Years before the San Quintin clinic was improved..we did basic oral surgery ,eye glass dispense from a big box featuring 400 donated eye glasses..great times..you probably did EL Fluerte...

Are you still active with the Mother Lode Chapter ? Their clinics are the same weekend as ours and we all stay at the same hotel even though our clinic is in El Rosario. They also paved Robertson's Ranch about a year and a half ago so it is quite nice now. I'm on the Board of Directors for the Tucson group and manage to make 5-6 trips a year with our chapter.

[thinwing]

I figured as much..let me know your next trip down...I'm taking my bride down to Alamos..(how do you describe inside of Jims hanger)for Valentine's Day...see you there?

[Aerodon]

Mike,

Thanks for your post, but welcome to Africa.  I've flown myself to Okavango a couple of times, and your African adventure sure brings back memories.  In 1992 my new wife and I flew from Johannesburg, Maun, Okavango, Victoria Falls, Lake Kariba, Lake Malawi and back in our Seminole.  Somewhere I have a picture of our Seminole parked under a tree in the Okavango and another one of lions teethmarks on the nosecone.  Nothing like walking back to the plane and seeing lion footprints on your footprints from the night before, and not having a gun handy..

On my flight into Okavango, the guide called me up on a handheld radio and asked if I really wanted to land.  I asked about the surface hardness and proceeded.  First approach didn't look good, second one was fine, crossed the water on the threshold and touched down in the first 50 feet.  Only just managed to stop before the embankment on the other side.  My knees were shaking and I just did not understand what I did wrong.  The guide congratulated me, and told me I was the second twin to have ever landed there.  The first one crashed off the end of the runway, so he was suitably impressed.  The chart showed the runway at 2500'.  I paced it out and it was 1500'.  

I moved to Canada 25 years ago and had to redo my commercial ride - got the highest score all year at Pacific Flying Club.  There was nothing wrong with the training then, nor is it now, I still see pilots from that region going on to get FAA ATPL's and JAR ATPL's and flying all over the world.  

The newspaper article you posted shows exactly what is going on.  In the USA and Canada we try support First Nations owned or operated companies, minority owned companies, gender owner companies etc.  In Africa the terminology is different - previously disadvantaged persons, BEE's etc.  For sure your operator was forced to employ certain persons, or face not getting an operating licence, government contracts etc. A goal that I do support, but it has become so corrupted that I do not hold out much hope for it succeeding.  Count yourself lucky that you got a co-pilot to go along.  As to your second flight - I'm not even going to try defend the pilot, other than to say that if he is still flying a GA8 with 2700 hours, there's a reason why.....  Generally its a much quicker revolving door - Okavango and GA8's are very much an entry level position and if you demonstrate enthusiasm and competence you are quickly going to find yourself in a Caravan, King Air or better.

I know the training and hiring intentions are good, but there are some fundamental obstacles to be overcome. I remember reading that it takes three generations to learn to operate an aircraft carrier.  Its not to say that only the grandson of a fleet captain can become a fleet captain.  It's more that the whole training and operations environment in a highly technical business has to be in place and refined over many many years in order to succeed.  Although if you look at politics, it seems as though family heritage plays an important part.  Countries around the world are trying to play catchup to the first world, with varying degrees of success.  And there are huge cultural issues that get drawn in whether you like it or not.  The local airfields are filled with Chinese and Indian flying schools.  They are taking guys and (maybe some girls) out of high school and placing them in fully paid for training courses, and then on into RHS of Airbus and 737's with less than 300 hours.  The USA and Canada are the opposite - we expect pilots to pay for all their training, then work for peanuts, then get 1500 hours in decent equipment, then maybe a better job.  Not a good situation either way.

Now, maybe I'm a little over sensitive - but there was no need to identify gender or race in your post.  All you are doing is perpetuating racism.  The end goal is to hire pilots (and others) without having to identify ethnicity or gender.  Unfortunately the world is not exactly succeeding at present is it.

Regards,

 

Aerodon

 

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KLRDMD]

33 minutes ago, thinwing said:

I figured as much..let me know your next trip down...I'm taking my bride down to Alamos..(how do you describe inside of Jims hanger)for Valentine's Day...see you there?

I'm in Vegas for the January and February trips but I'm going in March, April and May. Possibly June too. I haven't been to Alamos but I've heard it is very nice.

[thinwing]

9 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I'm in Vegas for the January and February trips but I'm going in March, April and May. Possibly June too. I haven't been to Alamos but I've heard it is very nice.

It is,and the wife gets really excited about staying there...5000 ft paved citation capable...taxi up to large metal hanger...inside built out like Mexican hacienda...everyone who sees it for first time does a WTF moment!

[jlunseth]

@Andy-

I would say I am an in between guy too.  We are single pilot in a Mooney most of the time, of course, and the rest of the time the guy sitting right seat might know how to keep it in the air, but he does not know the particular aircraft.  I have had right seat pilots from Beech's etc. and they always spend a lot of time asking questions about what a particular readout might me, or how they do something in their NA and why is it different in my turbo, so they are not particularly useful in a pinch.

On the ground I am religious about using checklists.  I created one from my POH (there is not formal checklist in the 231 POH, you need to fish through for everything), and I have modified it as I gained experience in the aircraft.  It covers everything.

In the air, however, I don't use written checklists.  I use either mnemonics (for example, at the FAF -Time, Gear, Power, Tower, Lights, Lights, Lights) or flows.  The "Instruments and radio" parts of "WIRE" becomes a flow across the Comm Panel to make sure everything that needs to get set up, has gotten set up.  In the air is not a good time to go heads down and read through a checklist unless you have someone right seat who knows the aircraft to help you do it. Even for emergencies - especially for emergencies.  If the circumstances give you time to check what you did with your mnemonic or flow with a written checklist, fine, do it.  But timeliness, especially in emergencies, is often more important than perfection.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

@Andy-

I would say I am an in between guy too.  We are single pilot in a Mooney most of the time, of course, and the rest of the time the guy sitting right seat might know how to keep it in the air, but he does not know the particular aircraft. . . . In the air is not a good time to go heads down and read through a checklist unless you have someone right seat who knows the aircraft to help you do it. Even for emergencies - especially for emergencies.  If the circumstances give you time to check what you did with your mnemonic or flow with a written checklist, fine, do it.  But timeliness, especially in emergencies, is often more important than perfection.

I definitely agree with this part! When I had total electrical failure turning inbound on a VOR approach along the Ohio River on the WV border, I ran the checklists by memory, cranked down the gear, then fished out the Owners Manual for my CFII to review. Then we turned for home and followed the River. Fortunately we had descended below the clouds as we turned outbound for the procedure turn, not all that high over the snowy hills. Some things you just gotta know.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Hank

[bradp]

I do hybrid ... preflight inside, outside, backed up by the paper.

After that I get to do my run up, as a flow, backed up with the placard check list.

Then the most important part- I say out loud (or sometimes silently)- what'd kill me now. Fuel (don't touch it now), Trim, flaps verified, controls free, mags on, engine green.

Landing flow with placarded checklist backup.

Short final extra gear down / cleared to land.

Book is for emergency checklists. I put my own version into a document I keep in foreflight with important numbers (glide, Va) and landing speeds based on weight for when I forget.

Pretty simple and works well. I used to have a checklist for everything but it was too cumbersome. I tied to pare it down some.

Re Africa- my wife just got back from a trip and sounds somewhat familiar. You wanted an adventure and got one. Driving in certain places in the world seems just as harrowing. Good thing is as gsxr says - people are people are people.

And I am the best below average pilot in the world ;-)


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[jlunseth]

Yes, no enforced speed limit in Portugal.  The speed you travel especially on the freeways is dependent on the type car you are driving, and at what speed the suspension still feels like it is tracking securely.  Peugots and Renaults generally puke out between 100 and 125 mph, Mercedes, Ferrari's and the like will be doing 140-160 and if you are in the left lane doing 120 they will flash their lights and YOU MUST move over.  On the two lane highways someone will pull into the oncoming lane to pass, and traffic in that lane is expected to move onto the shoulder.  I have seen two cars passing at the same time on two lanes, the cars being passed are expected to pull onto the shoulder.  Try that here.