Cwalsh7997 Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Hey guys, just wanted some help and tips on flying a 252 versus a M20. It will be my first time flying a turbo aircraft, I have over 800 hours in a M20F. Any tips and advice for flying it would be appreciated. It will be a cross country, planning to take advantage of the altitude and use oxygen. Quote
carusoam Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 CW, My tip is always contacting a Mooney specific CFII... There is so much the same between Moonies the one thing that would get you in trouble is unknown until it is upon you. trying to cover that in writing is not super easy... How familiar are you with turbo ops, with an intercooler and pressure controller? How familiar are you with all of the buttons and switches of the IP? Speed brake use for emergency descents? weight and balance, typical issues of any plane... LOP ops... You can do some reading on how other people handle some of these things. Turbo ops have an extra level of knowledge and instrumentation that goes with them. TIT limitations, acceptable vs. best way to handle them... Let us know if you would like a recommendation for a CFII with turbo Mooney experience in your area... Best regards, -a- Quote
gsxrpilot Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 Hey CW, I sold my C and moved up to a 252. My first flight in any 252, was solo in the one I purchased. I picked it up in New Philadelphia, OH and flew it home to San Marcos, TX. Take offs and landings, will be very much the same as in your F. Frankly, I didn't notice any difference from my C (short body). It's certainly heavier and could take a bit more runway on both ends of the flight. But assuming your first 252 landing won't be on some short grass strip behind your hangar home, you'll probably be fine. The main things to know are just the engine management as the turbo is a new wrinkle. But unlike the 231 which requires manual management of the turbo, the 252 is really pretty fool proof. Just shove the black, blue, and red knobs forward and climb out. I took off on my first flight with the POH and this Test Pilot article in the seat next to me. By the time I got home to San Marcos, I was pretty comfortable with the engine management. If you haven't already, download and print this out. You're gonna want to read it a few times and maybe even make some notes in the margins. http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K252_evaluation_report.htm Have fun and enjoy your 252. It might be one of the best Mooney's ever made. Quote
David Mazer Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 First, I agree with Carusome about a Mooney CFI who knows the 252. I flew a Rocket and now fly an F. The main differences between them boil down to gentleness and advance planning. Be gentile with all your engine inputs. Advance power slowly, even on takeoff, adjust your mixture slowly, and reduce power slowly. That also means it takes longer to slow down and to descend. Plan ahead. The Rocket is about 60-70 KTS faster than an F so things happen faster. At FL200+ it usually takes 100 NM to descend without ending up at VNE. I would usually be nearing approach power settings 25 NM from the airport. I know others need less time but you might use that as a starting point until you understand your new plane. Enjoy it. A 252 is a great airplane. Quote
mike_elliott Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 Hi Conner, did you sell your F and get a 252? I know you were wearing that sucker out What was the final outcome of the engine rebuild? Quote
sailon Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 Hey CW, I started my Mooney career in my CFI's 252, and now own my own F. Some things are easier in the 252. Higher flap speeds and landing gear speeds for one. Not to mention electric flaps, cowl flap, and landing gear. The speed brakes come in handy. They fly and land the same, just watch the speeds. Here is an excellent reference for handling the numbers: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K252_evaluation_report.htm. Mandatory reading in my opinion. If you like, I and my instructor are in the Melbourne FL, let me know if you would like to hookup. I actually find speed control in the F a bit harder to get used to since the flap and gear speeds are much slower. Quote
Vance Harral Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 While engine management is a significant issue, there are a few more mundane differences that are important to note. One I was a little surprised by is the different sight picture in the flare due to the longer nose. The difference in length from the pilot seat to the nose of the spinner between an F and a K may not be that significant in measured inches, but it just looks different to me in the flare. Quote
FBCK Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 Just watch the TIT. With the 252 you can produce100% power all the way up to 21000 ft I believe so try to stay out of the red box, either run it 125 ROP (full rich on takeoff) or run it on the lean side, but stay out of the middle. Quote
carqwik Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 I think you'll be surprised how far out you have to start down when you go up high...at least at a rate that doesn't blow out your eardrums. Simple math will work...figure on a 500 fpm descent to keep your engine warm and no ear pain...from 17k to seal level would take 34 minutes...so roughly 100 miles out from your destination you need to start coming down.... When your IFR, you sometimes have to ask for a descent... the controllers will think you can do turboprop descents (1500+ fpm) and hold you up high too long. And also remember to lean as you descend to keep the TIT gauge up...and the engine cool down after landing is not for the engine itself but to cool the bearings in the turbocharger. Quote
carusoam Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 Be familiar your with oxygen systems when you go that high. Have a working plan B ready to go. Train and practice. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 The 252 will produce full power to 24K ft. and it is certified to 28K. I have the altitude pre-select with my autopilot and so it's easy to dial in a 500 ft/min descent. Use your GPS to calculate the V-speed profile. I usually back off to 20" of MP which gives me a nice cruise speed in the descent and allows the engine to cool slowly. As has been pointed out before, read this: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K252_evaluation_report.htm Quote
carusoam Posted September 27, 2016 Report Posted September 27, 2016 Magical airplane! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Nippernaper Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 Resurrecting this thread. Any chance someone has the flight report (from the old mapalog website) in pdf that they could share? Quote
Fly Boomer Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 43 minutes ago, Nippernaper said: Resurrecting this thread. Any chance someone has the flight report (from the old mapalog website) in pdf that they could share? M20K 252 TSE Eval (MAPA).pdf Quote
Nippernaper Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 10 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said: M20K 252 TSE Eval (MAPA).pdf 322.35 kB · 2 downloads Thanks!!! Quote
231MJ Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 As someone suggested, read the article several time - the suggestions are spot on. Make a note card you can refer to with the suggested power settings, they work. This is how I have flown my 231 with the MB engine since I got the plane. IMO, it's the best way to operate the aircraft (no disrespect to those that operate LOP). You will really enjoy the 252. Wish they were still building em. Quote
Jetpilot86 Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 Is there a version of this for the Bravo? Quote
Fly Boomer Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Jetpilot86 said: Is there a version of this for the Bravo? Similar: Test Pilot.pdf 1 Quote
shawnd Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 Since someone revived this thread - I have to ask. What are folks thinking about the +50 degrees ROP mentioned in the article. And TIT being 1450? I assume with the accumulated knowledge over the years, we want to be at least 100 degrees ROP. Should TIT be around 1550 for the TSIO360MB? Quote
Fix Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 Would be happy if we could have an complete guide how to manage engine on the 252 MB/SB Both LOP / ROP Quote
carusoam Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Fix said: Would be happy if we could have an complete guide how to manage engine on the 252 MB/SB Both LOP / ROP We have a few really excellent threads for turbo ops regarding LOP… I’ll see if I can point this thread in that direction.., as far as TIT and EGT go… know that the POH often points to operating in flaming dragon mode…. Great for speed, but not so good for economy… I have a favorite author on this topic around here somewhere… know that all Mooneys can operate LOP, some are much easier than others. All depending on the intake system, and available instrumentation… best regards, -a- Quote
carusoam Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Fix said: Would be happy if we could have an complete guide how to manage engine on the 252 MB/SB Both LOP / ROP This thread is pretty much what you are asking about… @jlunseth is my favorite author on the subject matter… All the participants in the thread are very knowledgeable.., best regards, -a- 2 Quote
Pinecone Posted Thursday at 05:31 PM Report Posted Thursday at 05:31 PM I find mine easy. Take off and climb, every thing full forward. Accelerate for cruise, set 29,5 inches, 2300, 10.1 GPH, relax. 1 Quote
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