Oh man... Are we going to fit?

[JimColeman1]

I've done hours and hours of research and have finally come to the conclusion that by all accounts a Mooney meets my mission. Specifically, the M20F with it's extra carrying capacity and longer cabin. I love that the Mooney is so damn fast and has equally impressive efficiency.

But...

Then I started hearing of the "dreaded" small cabin. So I look at some stats and learn the Mooney cabin is actually wider, at 43.5 inches, than the 172 or 182, which are 42." Apparently, the rub comes in how you have to shimmy into the left seat of a Mooney.

I'm not a small guy. My son, who will be flying with me most the time, is also not small. I'm 6'2" and right around 300#. My son is 6'3" and around 275. I have my PPL and trained in a Cessna 172. I was about the same size, but my instructor was really small. I've never sat in a Mooney and I'm just not sure it's going to work. I badly want to make this not only work, but be realistic as well.

The obvious answer is to lose weight. I get that. But if I had that whole thing figured out I can assure you I wouldn't be this size. So, yes, that will be the plan, but I need to figure out if it will work as we presently are as well. If so, then weight loss would be a bonus in many ways.

I need a hand guys! Let me know your experience in this area and thoughts...

Thanks!

[Ron McBride]

I just ran a weight and balance in my F.   The 2 of, full tanks and up to a 100# of baggage will put you at gross.   Other planes will very with accessories.

I am about 210 and friends are about 200, it gets snug up front.  Winter time, it can get real snug.

Ron

[kpaul]

I own a M20F, I am 6'1" and 220lbs, my son is almost exactly the same size.  We both fit in the plane with my wife and daughter in the back with leg room. 

The best thing you could do is go and sit in one and see how it fits you.

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, N803RM said:

I just ran a weight and balance in my F.   The 2 of, full tanks and up to a 100# of baggage will put you at gross.   Other planes will very with accessories.

I am about 210 and friends are about 200, it gets snug up front.  Winter time, it can get real snug.

Ron

I ran the numbers for my F and it only gives 43# of baggage at full fuel, but at 50 gal of fuel gives about 115# of cargo. So the basic weight of the plane may be a factor when you choose a plane.

[JimColeman1]

Thanks, guys, this is very helpful. It sounds like we're good to go on the actual weight, but my concern is more our size, or specifically our width. Do you guys sit offset when you have larger people in the plane? I've only flown Cessnas, so I also don't have the experience of shimmying my way over into the left seat.

[Hank]

The left seat shimmy isn't hard. But unlike a Cessna, the seats are close to the floor, your legs are out in front of you and the panel is closer. But you also fly 50% faster and my C does that on 10-15% less fuel . . . For comparison, the bottom of my seat frames are about 2" off the floor, not enough room to store anything. But stuff slides under from time to time anyway, I just dug out a 2-year old sectional last night.

Getting out from the right seat can also be a challenge. You do not want to lean on the door! It's easiest to just have the passenger roll right onto their knees out in the wing, facing the rear, then lean on the fuselage as they stand up. It's much easier scooting across and stepping onto the wing.

The Mooney will also go much further on fuel. My plane only has 52 gallons, but I've flown for 4:40 before, into the wind, so distance isn't always great. But on that trip (deviating around ice in southern WV), I had a 68 knot groundspeed crossing the hills eastbound towards Knoxville (my plane trues around 140 knots). I went to see Mom & Dad over Labor Day, 2:05 out and 2:10 back, without refueling because there's no fuel at the field nearest them. Seems I put in about 40 gallons when I got back.

An F model, flown LOP, will run about the same speed or a little faster with slightly lower fuel burn, so don't let the comments above about partial fuel bother you. But do verify the empty weight and useful load, and play with the CG to see how you will fit.

[takair]

Jim

I think it would be snug, but doable.  Sitting offset helps, one problem is that the seat rail holes do not go far enough aft, but once in cruise one of you could slide further back to provide lots of offset.  Don't get in the habit of taking off and landing that way, the crash worthiness of the seats and belts rely on the seats being locked.  I might recommend looking at an electric gear plane.  I find that with a bigger person flying along the room to move the johnson bar gets tight.  Also, how long are your trips going to be?  A couple of other thoughts.  When getting in and out of the left seat, slide across.  I have seen people use the pax seat back for leverage and that cracks the seats.  Also, don't use the rudder pedals for leverage either, that too can result in damage due to the nose gear being hard linked.  Try a couple on for size.  Seat and interior fit and finish make a difference.  

[bonal]

As for the weight sounds like non issue with 2 and not full tanks. Now mine is a short body and I think I'm the only one that gets in and out this way. Pax seat full forward pilot seat full back I step in behind pax seat then left leg in foot well right leg in holding seat back and sit down. Getting out is even easier seats in same position rotate right knee on pilot seat pan left foot on floor behind pax seat stand up step out. With an F should be even easier. I find the scoot across seat method very difficult. 

[takair]

Just now, bonal said:

As for the weight sounds like non issue with 2 and not full tanks. Now mine is a short body and I think I'm the only one that gets in and out this way. Pax seat full forward pilot seat full back I step in behind rear seat then left leg in foot well right leg in holding seat back and sit down. Getting out is even easier seats in same position rotate right knee on pilot seat pan left foot on floor behind pax seat stand up step out. With an F should be even easier. I find the scoot across seat method very difficult. 

Never thought to do this.  May have to try it.

[kpaul]

34 minutes ago, Hank said:

don't let the comments above about partial fuel bother you

I normally only fill to 50 gals (62 gal cap) unless I am planning a long trip, I usually don't plan max endurance legs since my wife does not have a max endurance bladder.

 

36 minutes ago, Hank said:

plane trues around 140 knots

Yep that is right where my F trues out.  I plan for 10 gal per hour, however I am generally below that, but it is a good average for including the climb.

 

28 minutes ago, takair said:

Pax seat full forward pilot seat full back

I am going to try that next time.

[JimColeman1]

42 minutes ago, Hank said:

The left seat shimmy isn't hard. But unlike a Cessna, the seats are close to the floor, your legs are out in front of you and the panel is closer. But you also fly 50% faster and my C does that on 10-15% less fuel . . . For comparison, the bottom of my seat frames are about 2" off the floor, not enough room to store anything. But stuff slides under from time to time anyway, I just dug out a 2-year old sectional last night.

Getting out from the right seat can also be a challenge. You do not want to lean on the door! It's easiest to just have the passenger roll right onto their knees out in the wing, facing the rear, then lean on the fuselage as they stand up. It's much easier scooting across and stepping onto the wing.

The Mooney will also go much further on fuel. My plane only has 52 gallons, but I've flown for 4:40 before, into the wind, so distance isn't always great. But on that trip (deviating around ice in southern WV), I had a 68 knot groundspeed crossing the hills eastbound towards Knoxville (my plane trues around 140 knots). I went to see Mom & Dad over Labor Day, 2:05 out and 2:10 back, without refueling because there's no fuel at the field nearest them. Seems I put in about 40 gallons when I got back.

An F model, flown LOP, will run about the same speed or a little faster with slightly lower fuel burn, so don't let the comments above about partial fuel bother you. But do verify the empty weight and useful load, and play with the CG to see how you will fit.

Ah, this is great, Hank, thanks for sharing!

[JimColeman1]

38 minutes ago, takair said:

Jim

I think it would be snug, but doable.  Sitting offset helps, one problem is that the seat rail holes do not go far enough aft, but once in cruise one of you could slide further back to provide lots of offset.  Don't get in the habit of taking off and landing that way, the crash worthiness of the seats and belts rely on the seats being locked.  I might recommend looking at an electric gear plane.  I find that with a bigger person flying along the room to move the johnson bar gets tight.  Also, how long are your trips going to be?  A couple of other thoughts.  When getting in and out of the left seat, slide across.  I have seen people use the pax seat back for leverage and that cracks the seats.  Also, don't use the rudder pedals for leverage either, that too can result in damage due to the nose gear being hard linked.  Try a couple on for size.  Seat and interior fit and finish make a difference.  

Great points. We live in central TX now and just moved from CO. So I would like to be able to go non-stop from TX to CO. It's about 650NM or so. Seems doable in the F. I would also love to fly for Angel Flight or other charitable organizations as well, so I'm thinking the increased pax comfort the F has to offer would be great for that purpose. A little more room for a fragile kiddo and medical equipment, etc.

[MB65E]

You guys should be fine in the mooney. Just be careful with leaning on the seat backs. They were designed for a load from your back while sitting. Not side loaded with half your weight on the back while climbing in. Just be careful. Most of the older seat backs in the 3-4K hour range probably already have cracks. You could inspect before you buy them have it repaired and beefed up where they crack. 

-Matt

[bonal]

Based on your size I think an electric gear would be an advantage here

[ArtVandelay]

The only way you can answer thus question is to find one and sit in it. Shouldn't be a problem finding one in TX

[Stetson20]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

As for the weight sounds like non issue with 2 and not full tanks. Now mine is a short body and I think I'm the only one that gets in and out this way. Pax seat full forward pilot seat full back I step in behind pax seat then left leg in foot well right leg in holding seat back and sit down. Getting out is even easier seats in same position rotate right knee on pilot seat pan left foot on floor behind pax seat stand up step out. With an F should be even easier. I find the scoot across seat method very difficult. 

Video demo!  Please.

[gsxrpilot]

Where do you live? I live in Austin and fly out of San Marcos. I'm 250# and fly a mid-body same as the F. I'd be happy to give you a ride and you can see how we fit side by side in the Mooney.

FWIW... It's much easier getting out of the Left front seat than the Right.  Of course as the owner, I never have to sit in the right seat. ;-)

[Oldguy]

A couple of us on MS go well over 6' and probably close to the #. I think Yetti has an F and at 6'9" (that right Yetti?) he is either over 200 or anorexic. I am 6'5" and about 220 (or trying to be) and have carried full seats and NOT full tanks on many flights.

As said elsewhere, bladder range is often exceeded by fuel range.

[Guest]

I'd take the front right seat out and put junior in the back, plenty of room for both.

Clarence

[Alain B]

[MARZ]

Jim where in Texas ?

[carusoam]

Financial administrator sits comfortably in the back, Alain?

Best regards,

-a-

[JimColeman1]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Where do you live? I live in Austin and fly out of San Marcos. I'm 250# and fly a mid-body same as the F. I'd be happy to give you a ride and you can see how we fit side by side in the Mooney.

FWIW... It's much easier getting out of the Left front seat than the Right.  Of course as the owner, I never have to sit in the right seat. ;-)

Man, I would LOVE that! I'm in Copperas Cove, about an hour and a half north of San Marcos, but I don't mind the drive. Know of a local joint we could fly to for a $100 hamburger? Zap me an IM or email, if you would, and we can coordinate (jimcoleman1@gmail.com). Thanks so much!

[JimColeman1]

21 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

Jim where in Texas ?

Hey Mike, I'm about an hour north of Austin in Copperas Cove. Looks like you're in Houston? My Pop lives there so I find myself in Houston often. Love it there. =)

[Danb]

5 hours ago, JimColeman1 said:

Great points. We live in central TX now and just moved from CO. So I would like to be able to go non-stop from TX to CO. It's about 650NM or so. Seems doable in the F. I would also love to fly for Angel Flight or other charitable organizations as well, so I'm thinking the increased pax comfort the F has to offer would be great for that purpose. A little more room for a fragile kiddo and medical equipment, etc.

Did an angel flight yesterday Clemson sc to De., the remarks from the person I Picked up who never flew,it that our plane it so CUTE, a college girl I was taking to her granfathers funeral, by the time we were up. I had the barf bags ready, didn't need them,she was taking pictures in a few minutes and loved the Mooney. It's so Cute. 

Your new F when you get it will be just fine and really cute.

Welcome Jim C