Let's say you have $15k to spend on avionics/radios

[steingar]

15 AMUs won't buy diddly. Yeah, maybe a 430 plus indicator, but that's all you have. It goes TU you got nothing.  You might get away with a nav/comm with glide slope and an older non waas GPS.  That's about it. That said, it does give you a smidgeon of redundancy.  

Thatcsaid, I find it hard to believe that a fast traveling aircraft like a Mooney would have such a naive panel. 

[Guest]

The mission planned for the airplane and what is currently installed will determine what to buy.  Cruising around VFR or desire for IFR flying?  Once you know the mission you can make a better decision.  You may also want to see what comes up with future releases like the Dynon and the new FAA plans.

I've put an Aspen, 430W, system 50 and now a Lynx 9000 in my brand P and I'm not instrument rated. It does make a great VFR panel.  Out of all of them I like the Aspen and Lynx the most.

Clarence

[PaulB]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

15 AMUs won't buy diddly. Yeah, maybe a 430 plus indicator, but that's all you have. It goes TU you got nothing.  You might get away with a nav/comm with glide slope and an older non waas GPS.  That's about it. That said, it does give you a smidgeon of redundancy.  

Thatcsaid, I find it hard to believe that a fast traveling aircraft like a Mooney would have such a naive panel. 

I wouldn't say a 430 is diddly.  A 430 really opens up the capability of the plane that has no GPS especially if it's a WAAS version.  Being able to do LPV approaches is huge.  If I had $15k to spend and didn't have a GPS I would look at adding a 430w and keeping one of the old radios as a back up nav/com.  I wouldn't worry too much about needing the redundancy of two GPSs.  The plane will still fly if you don't have a GPS.  You'll be back to what you have now.

Edited June 19, 2016 by PaulB

[Bob - S50]

16 hours ago, nels said:

VFR for now. May end up IFR.

First of all, it's much cheaper to buy an airplane with the equipment already installed than it is to buy one with nothing and install it yourself.

Engine monitor #1.  $3000 - $4000 installed?  All you need for pure VFR.

When the money becomes available, a GTN650 (smallest cheapest state of the art WAAS GPS).  $14,000 - $16,000 installed?

When more money becomes available, GTX345 for ADS-B OUT/IN.  $6000 installed?

When more money becomes available, and you want to do a lot of IFR flying, an HSI or Aspen.  $3000 - $12000?

When more money becomes available, replace the TC with a battery backup ADI; mechanical, Sandia, Dynon, etc.  $3000 - $7000.

[gsengle]

I disagree that Garmin is the "smallest cheapest state of the art GPS". Everyone should seriously consider the Avidyne units before making a decision.

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[Hector]

4 hours ago, steingar said: 15 AMUs won't buy diddly. Yeah, maybe a 430 plus indicator, but that's all you have. It goes TU you got nothing.  You might get away with a nav/comm with glide slope and an older non waas GPS.  That's about it. That said, it does give you a smidgeon of redundancy.  

Thatcsaid, I find it hard to believe that a fast traveling aircraft like a Mooney would have such a naive panel. 

I wouldn't say a 430 is diddly.  A 430 really opens up the capability of the plane that has no GPS especially if it's a WAAS version.  Being able to do LPV approaches is huge.  If I had $15k to spend and didn't have a GPS I would look at adding a 430w and keeping one of the old radios as a back up nav/com.  I wouldn't worry too much about needing the redundancy of two GPSs.  The plane will still fly if you don't have a GPS.  You'll be back to what you have now.

I agree with this. With 15K go for a 430w or avidyne. An AP would be sweet specially for serious IFR but I would wait a bit on that. It may very well be that in a couple of years the FAA may let you install a trutrack for 3.5k.

[nels]

43 minutes ago, gsengle said:

I disagree that Garmin is the "smallest cheapest state of the art GPS". Everyone should seriously consider the Avidyne units before making a decision.

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The Avidyne looks like a good value. Does a 430 do more or less? What's the difference other than manufacturer?

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, nels said:

The Avidyne looks like a good value. Does a 430 do more or less? What's the difference other than manufacturer?

The Avidyne is newer, does more and is reputed to be more user-friendly. The Garmin knobology is very counter-intuitive. A WAAS GPS will open up a lot of things for you, especially when you start instrument training. But a new Avi 440 with install will chew up your entire budget . . . What they have going for them is they are direct Garmin replacements, same tray and everything, while the new Garmin units aren't compatible with the old Garmin trays,raising the install cost. With nothing, after install you won't save much between a used 430W and a new 440W.

One thing to keep in mind is that some of what you take out can be sold to offset some installation labor.

Try to find a Brittain AccuFlite, it will fly you in whatever direction you set the heading bug for (assuming your plane has a working PC system). They are simple, and very inexpensive to upkeep (I had a servo rebuilt ~4 years ago for $135 plus shipping to Tulsa).

For now, I wouldn't worry about ADSB or iPad connectivity, I fly just fine without either, and plan to continue doing so until ADSB units fall to reasonable prices. I also will not buy an all-in-one unit and run a second GPS antenna, that's just flushing money down the toilet. Time will tell if I can still get inside the Bravo ring underneath the actual airspace . . . If not, I won't lose a whole lot.

[Godfather]

Many different models are being mentioned here.  When people mention Avdyne they are referring to the ifd540 and ifd440.  These units are relatively new and are IFR waas approach certified units.  The 430 and 530 are the current standard with over 100k in use.  The waas upgrade for these units updates some of the internal components, speeds up the refresh rate, and allows for a lot more options for IFR approaches.

[gsengle]

Without ads-b you won't get within the 30nm mode-c veil of a class B

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[gsengle]

Also consider that the Avidyne units are new and under warranty whereas there is a concern (see other threads) that support will end at some point for the old 430 and 530 units. These are what coming up on 20 years old...

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[Marauder]

In 1991 when I bought my Mooney I set out an upgrade path that correlated to the risk factors that I contended with. My initial work was to get the basic wing leveler working to have enough confidence in it. Then I set out on the path where my budget worked:

> 1992 GEM engine analyzer (paid dividends in fuel savings and saved my bacon in 1993 when I had an inflight engine problem and was able to use it to diagnose the issue)

> 1993 EI fuel totalizer. I wanted a better gauge of fuel usage and a backup for pressure.

> 1998 STEC 60-2. Flew for 7 years with a basic wing leveler. Added a second kid to the mix and wanted a more capable autopilot to give my family a chance.

> 2012 Full avionics upgrade. Garmin GTN 650, Aspen 2000, PSE 8000BT. Time to enter the modern age.

> 2013 Upgraded the GEM to a JPI 830

> 2015 Upgraded the JPI 830 to a JPI 900 to replace my primary gauges

> 2015 Replaced second Nav/Com due to reliability issues, replaced with Garmin 255B (nothing like 16 watts to get your message across)

I would just prioritize your upgrades to coincide with your needs. Keep in the back of your mind that if you have even the slightest thought of upgrading to a different plane that other than resale potential, you probably won't capture your investment back. Many of us are fine with this.

 

 

[gsengle]

Good point re: safety first.

If IFR, an autopilot is top of my list followed by the WAAS GPS. Then I'd consider ADS-B traffic and weather to be a must followed by a good engine analyzer with fuel totalizer to be very important. An old radio that can fly an ILS is a suitable backup.

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[bonal]

Just think what you could do with 15k if you could install non TSO certified products like with experimentals. I really think the FAA does not want us to fly safer or perhaps not at all.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, bonal said:

Just think what you could do with 15k if you could install non TSO certified products like with experimentals. I really think the FAA does not want us to fly safer or perhaps not at all.

The new FAA mantra; Safety first, no one moves, no one gets hurt.

Clarence

[NotarPilot]

If you absolutely positively have to stay under 15k and in light of the recent news about non-TSO'd items making their way to TC'd aircraft I'd recommend getting yourself a used 430W, a used GI-106A and a Garmin G5 (assuming they become available under an STC or TSO soon. I would venture to guess you'd be looking right around $15k to buy those and have them installed. That should be enough for good VFR and occasional IFR flying. 

Check ebay, there's a package up for a 430 WAAS, GMA 340 audio panel and GI-106A for $11k. On second thought you might not be able to get the G5 since you'll likely spend $4k or more to install all that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by NotarPilot

[Hondo]

Do you have an engine monitor or HSI?

I didn’t have either.  First addition was an engine monitor.
My CFII suggested I add an HSI.  That was great advice.  

If you have an engine monitor and HSI, the Stratus 2S and Foreflight combination is hard to beat.  It would probably cost over 15K to duplicate that capability in the panel and you can  save over 1000/year for maps and plates.

If you want to get you IFR rating using a WAAS receiver, the installed cost of something like he GTN650 or IFD440 would probably approach 15K.  There are risks with used equipment.  Manufactures can drop support for older models and Jepessen may drop database support like they did with the Northstar M3.

 

[JohnB]

15k to spend, Easy! You could get some great equipment with this:

1) Garmin 430W (That should run about 8k installed)

2) Ipad mini with subscription to foreflight  ($800)

3) Garmin GI course indicator ($2,000) - will be needed to display glideslope and course data from your 430.

4) Stratus 2* ($800)

Lets see.. 8,000+800+2,000 +1,800 = $11,600

That would give you pretty much everything you need to navigate and do almost all approach types when you get your ifr, free adsb weather, and if your current configuration has any nav equipment in it, that could be your backup.

------------------------------------------------------------

A bit more expensive, but well worth it in my option would be this scenario:

1) Garmin 430W (That should run about 8k installed)

2) Ipad mini with subscription to your favorite aviation software  ($800)

3) Garmin GI course indicator ($2,000) - will be needed to display glideslope and course data from your 430.

4) GDL 88 (for ADSB-in around $6,000)

5) Flightstream 210 ($2000)

that would be around $18,800, a bit higher than your budget, but would eliminate the need for you to even think about getting a stratus ever, would get you subscription free ADSB weather and traffic to your ipad and allow you to input course data directly from your ipad into your 430.

 

John

 

 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

430Ws are great, but I would not spend $8K on a used 15 year old technology when an extra 4k gets you brand new, modern, warranty with nicer screen, more functionality, and easier database updates.

[nels]

4 hours ago, teejayevans said:

430Ws are great, but I would not spend $8K on a used 15 year old technology when an extra 4k gets you brand new, modern, warranty with nicer screen, more functionality, and easier database updates.

A lot have mentioned the 430 and 530 as good equipment and I agree but they are very expensive and as others have mentioned they are also very old. Looking at the Avidyne equipment it does appear to be a better choice to buy new versus old especially with the moderate difference in the price. The market on 430 and 530's just seem too expensive for basically old avionics. The Garmin name does give one a sense of security as far as dependability though.

 

[3914N]

Garmin 430W + indicator, GDL-88 ADS-B out.

All the navigation you need for IFR XC flying, plus no worries in 2020.  With the FAA's new 0.5 amu ADS-B rebate, you could probably keep it under 15 amu with installation.

[Browncbr1]

EDM 830 or 900 for sure  

If you don't plan on getting your IR, I'm not sure anything else in the panel is all that useful, assuming your autopilot will hold a heading and/or track a VOR.  

iPad/stratux/fltplanGo and garmin aera 510 are great and cheap. 

[larryb]

Nels:

     A couple things to think about. First, how do you want to manage your costs? Lowest long-term cost or lowest short-term cost. Those two options are often mutually exclusive. This feeds into the idea of used equipment. My opinion is that you don't save enough money with used equipment, given the high purchase and install cost. Used might very well cost more in the long term. Best to get the most modern gear now to get the longest service life. 

     The other is your IFR training. The reason for a modern panel is IFR flight. My belief is that one should train IFR on the equipment they will be flying. Others will say you should train old-school to learn the hard way and then upgrade after. But if you do that, you won't be training on the equipment you will be using to actually get the job done. This will take additional training, and cost you more in the long-run. If you aren't going to do your IFR training soon, get an iPad and engine monitor and stop there.

 

Larry

[Tom]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:15 AM, bonal said:

Just think what you could do with 15k if you could install non TSO certified products like with experimentals.

This. 

1 hour ago, larryb said:

The other is your IFR training.

And this.  And 2 hours with an instructor every 3-6 months to help keep your A-game alive.

I'd pick a 750 or 650 or 540 or 440 now with a $500 FAA subsidized ADS-B solution.  Resist all urges for any other glass in the panel (including engine monitoring) until at least 2018.  It's very likely that by 2020 you'll be able to legally install all the Dynon goodness that you currently see on the Dynon site. 

If the year is 2023 and I'm looking for used planes I'd choose a Dynon equipped plane over a Aspen/G500/JPI/EI panel any day.  Dynon offers (in my opinion) superior utility at a lower upkeep cost.  I'm curious if the Dynon-equipped would actually command a higher value vs, for example, an Aspen-JPI equipped plane.

Just another opinion....

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

Avionics upgrade if you only have $150K:

• G500 suite with SV and charts
• GTX750 (2)
• GDL88D
• GDL69A SXM
• GAD43E
• STEC2100
• Aera 796 in Gizmo
• JPI930
• FS210
• GTX33ES (2)
• GMA35
• Trilogy ESI500

Installed in a new metal panel, that should about use up your $150K.