What would you do?

[cliffy]

Let's just say you had personal, first hand experience with a 5 yr old airplane (by actually watching) that had a hard landing, blown nose tire, busted nose wheel fairing (yes, NOT a Mooney) nose gear damage, aft bulkhead damage, prop strike  (light, one blade only, 1/4 inch on a Lycoming engine) and the only maintenance done was to repair the nose gear assembly.

Now you see it advertised for sale by a prominent sales house as a pristine, no damage history airplane.

Oh, and did I mention that it had suffered another hard landing 6 months before the one mentioned that required both wings to be replaced with factory components? And the mechanic who repaired the nose gear refused to release the airplane for flight with the prop damage and no engine inspection but the owner found "someone"  to file the prop and fly it away?

What would you do?

Sorry posted in wrong forum Can someone move it I don't know how

Edited November 25, 2015 by cliffy

[DonMuncy]

I would probably do nothing. But if a similar situation happened involving a Mooney, I would probably post on Mooneyspace either (1) I see where Nxxx is for sale, advertised as NDH. I personally observed an incident in which this plane suffered (what I consider to be) damage. or more likely (2) I see where Nxxx is listed for sale with NDH. I have information which may affect your decision to consider this plane. PM me if you are interested. 

[Yetti]

I would think the whole regulatory system is to keep unairworthy airplanes on the ground.   I am still a bit miffed of the things I would consider unairworthy in my non A&P status were signed off on an annual when clearly they are on the annual list of things to be checked. 

You could always be in the market for the plane, go give a once over, note the damage to the sales person based on your cursory look over.

 

[carl]

I would buy the plane.

Then sue everybody !!!!

Then with the award buy a Mooney Ovation.

 

or do nothing

[N601RX]

I would have a hard time not saying something. The broker may not know, the owner may have hid it from him. 

[PMcClure]

It's not to hard to call the broker and inform him. It would at least clear my conscience. If he is reputable the he will look in to it before selling. 

[bonal]

Honest guys, my landings have gotten much better...Seriously I would likely mention it to the broker since they are representing something that could be a liability issue should the new owner find it was misrepresented I don't know I'm not a lawyer

[Oscar Avalle]

Although it goes against everything I stand for... I would not say anything after what happened to me today.

Today i returned to guatemala to finish up some issues and I had to face the following situation:

I saw a lady Park her car in a handicap stop. I asked to move her car please because it was parked in a place reserved for people with special needs. 

I was confronted with a f... Y... Comment and I faced a 45 from her body guard. My reaction was... To leave and tell myself...next time shut up.

[carl]

Oscar ,

was that in DC, or Miami? Not in Guatemala I bet

[Marauder]

I would say something. I couldn't bear the thought of that plane crashing and killing people because I decided to say nothing and the incident was the cause. Would you?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Although it goes against everything I stand for... I would not say anything after what happened to me today.

Today i returned to guatemala to finish up some issues and I had to face the following situation:

I saw a lady Park her car in a handicap stop. I asked to move her car please because it was parked in a place reserved for people with special needs. 

I was confronted with a f... Y... Comment and I faced a 45 from her body guard. My reaction was... To leave and tell myself...next time shut up.

Oscar, the wise thing tondo was walk away. Then call 911 and explain the incident. Ain't no excuse to draw a firearm on someone who isn't a threat. A ticket for the driver and a visit to the judge for the bodyguard might change both their attitudes.

[Danb]

Oscar , people are just so mean nowadays thank god the creep didn't shoot you, jeez.

on the damaged plane another creep, who do we trust, I'd tell the broker on the QT, or consider notifying the owner that if its not corrected I will go to the FAA and rat them out,as Chris said you don't want someone's death on you mind forever, again lots of creeps out there.

[jamesm]

Curious .....  on what the airplane, engine and propeller log books say

How many hours are on the engine and air frame?  If documented properly.... It should be hard to explain the disparity.

Sounds like someone has explaining to do.

As someone has already said ... I would let  the "prominent sales house"  know and then it on them.

[kris_adams]

I'd at least let the broker know what you know. They can research and do with the info what they decide. 

[DXB]

What are the risks here in telling the sales house? 

[Bennett]

The short version of a sad story and my response follows: About 10 years ago I bought a Cessna 120 that was in great shape, and with a lot of work brought it up to Oshkosh show level. In fact, I was planing to fly her out to Oshkosh, but shortly before, I lent that airplane to the gentleman whose hangar I was subletting. Before I let him fly it I had him fly with an instructor for 15 hours of tail wheel instruction and a tail wheel endorsement . Without going into all the details (horrible decision making by the "pilot") he totally destroyed the airplane. The fuselage was buckled, and crushed, both wings crushed, the vertical and horizontal stabilizers, were broken and bent beyond repair, and the engine knocked off its mounts. The prop was trashed as the engine was running when he cartwheeled the airplane down the runway (not a ground loop) as he was in a mental panic when he landed downwind in more that 35 knots of wind. I read his NASA form (he gave me a copy) as well as the NTSB report. The insurance Carrier sent me a check in three days as the airplane was wrecked beyond all repair - or so I thought. Four years later an obviously young woman called me to ask about a Cessna she was about to buy. She found my name in the FAA registry history. The seller claimed no damage history, but that he "lost" the log books, but he did recently rebuild the engine, and replaced the prop, as well as painting the airplane. The potential buyer was a newly minted pilot, and wanted to take her daughter flying. She liked the looks of the Cessna 120s, and wanted to know what I thought of the airplane, and why did I sell her? First, I went though the history of the airplane, and I made her promise me she would not buy that airplane until I made arrangements with an EAA chapter to meet with her in her home town. This happened, and she got some excellent advice, and some help in finding a different Cessna 120. A year or so later she called me again to say thanks, and that she and her daughter were enjoying their C120. I have flown "basket case" aircraft that were fully restored by competent A&Ps, who combined several aircraft to form one flyable airplane, but in those cases, there was true disclosure, and none of this "lost the logbooks, but no damage history" BS. In this instance I am glad I got the young lady straightened out, but to this day I wonder if I should have confronted the seller

[jetdriven]

44 minutes ago, Danb said:

Oscar , people are just so mean nowadays thank god the creep didn't shoot you, jeez.

on the damaged plane another creep, who do we trust, I'd tell the broker on the QT, or consider notifying the owner that if its not corrected I will go to the FAA and rat them out,as Chris said you don't want someone's death on you mind forever, again lots of creeps out there.

I've turned planes into the FAA for this before and they don't even reply. 

[Shadrach]

I called the Nashville FSDO once about a plane that I know had been geared up and suffered a prop strike and severe damage to the right wing. They assured me that they would investigate and that they were already aware of the sellers past activities. In hindsight, I think they were friendly with the seller and likely had a good laugh with him over my call. They never sent anyone out to investigate and the plane remained on the market.

[M20F]

57 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Curious .....  on what the airplane, engine and propeller log books say

Likewise, I find it pretty hard to believe that both wings would be replaced and the log books don't mention it.  Ad's claim a lot of things to get a phone call, but that doesn't necessarily mean wholesale fraud within the logbooks.  Personally I would be very cautious on making any accusations or phone calls to the FAA with out a clear set of facts like Bennett describes where it was his plane and he directly knows the story.   

[Oscar Avalle]

2 hours ago, carl said:

Oscar ,

was that in DC, or Miami? Not in Guatemala I bet

This was in Guatemala. I had just arrived in Guatemala from Washington DC. After surviving my commercial flight I felt relaxed... and got upset about the lack of sensitivity of this lady. I thought that it was an oversight... well she must have had a bad day. 

[cliffy]

It turns out tonight that it is not shown as a "No damage history" airplane in the ad now.

Interesting to say the least. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Although it goes against everything I stand for... I would not say anything after what happened to me today.

Today i returned to guatemala to finish up some issues and I had to face the following situation:

I saw a lady Park her car in a handicap stop. I asked to move her car please because it was parked in a place reserved for people with special needs. 

I was confronted with a f... Y... Comment and I faced a 45 from her body guard. My reaction was... To leave and tell myself...next time shut up.

 

There are special needs people everywhere, obviously her needs surpass anyone else's.

Clarence