Noise canceling headsets, how good are they ...really!

[DonMuncy]

I got a notice from the FAA as well, but I could not get beyond the first page. What did it say.

[Hank]

It's a one-page Special Airworthiness Bulletin linked to a one-page InFO. They just want you to be aware that some important sounds and warnings may be cancelled out by the electronics in your ANR headsets. They're worried that many GA pilots haven't read the InFO from several years ago.

[nels]

On November 19, 2015 at 9:41:49 PM, chrisk said:

I use Halo ear buds.  I'm very happy with them for short duration.    For long flights for 4+ hours, I put a pair of Bose QC15s over the Halo ear buds.  --Best of both worlds!

That sounds like a good idea. Are the Halos noise cancelling? What about the BoseQC15's?

Thanks for all the input from all. It has been enlightening.

[chrisk]

14 minutes ago, nels said:

That sounds like a good idea. Are the Halos noise cancelling? What about the BoseQC15's?

Thanks for all the input from all. It has been enlightening.

The Halos are passive, and basically foam plugs with a channel for the sound to enter.  They are very light wight and sound fantastic.  They also do a great job blocking the noise.   And it turns out I have the Bose QC25s, which are the generation after the QC15.  The Bose head set is a consumer noise canceling audio head set.  One nice feature is the cord can be completely detached.   When turned on it makes a noticeable difference in the noise level.  See http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=65 for more info on using consumer headsets in the plane. 

 

 

[Hank]

Halos are shipped with both foam and silicone inserts. The speakers are actually on the wire behind your head, the sound is transmitted through a tube that passes through the center of the ear plug. I hate foamy inserts, we have them at work. A good silicone plug is a much nicer experience. But no ANR.

Halosmare designed and built by a PhD audiologist, who flies a Mooney. Can't ask for better headset design and operation, if you ask me.

[nels]

9 hours ago, chrisk said:

The Halos are passive, and basically foam plugs with a channel for the sound to enter.  They are very light wight and sound fantastic.  They also do a great job blocking the noise.   And it turns out I have the Bose QC25s, which are the generation after the QC15.  The Bose head set is a consumer noise canceling audio head set.  One nice feature is the cord can be completely detached.   When turned on it makes a noticeable difference in the noise level.  See http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=65 for more info on using consumer headsets in the plane. 

 

 

So, is there any advantage to use noise canceling on top of Halos?

[chrisk]

1 hour ago, nels said:

So, is there any advantage to use noise canceling on top of Halos?

Would it be an advantage to use foam plugs with any of the standard Noise Canceling headsets?  I would think so.  It's the same with Halos, except they still allow you to hear the radio with perfect clarity.   

In any case, it is noticeably quieter in the low frequency range.  --And I want to make it very clear.  The Halos by them self are as quiet as any other head set (passive or active) that I have used.

[201er]

1 minute ago, chrisk said:

In any case, it is noticeably quieter in the low frequency range.  --And I want to make it very clear.  The Halos by them self are as quiet as any other head set (passive or active) that I have used.

I wouldn't go quite so far. The bose x are honestly quieter (with ANR on of course) but in my opinion, unnaturally quiet. Because the ANR attacks low frequencies, you as the pilot miss out the subtle changes in engine and wind speed noise. The ANR makes it a muffled drone that doesn't sound like something real. The one time I went back to Bose from Halo, I fealt really strange missing a lot of sound info that turns out to be useful. The Halo makes it comfortably quiet while retaining natural ambient sound feedback. Also the voice clarity of the Halo is even better than the Bose despite the ambient noise feeling being quieter. 

With David Clark, I gotta keep my radio volume at 3/4, Bose at 1/2, Halo has me turning volume down to almost 1/4. If you don't have to blast the radio as loud to be able to hear it clearly, I feel that must be the best protection of your hearing. In noise cancellation is inferior, it forces you to harm your hearing with louder volumes on top of that.

I would say music sounds a little better on the Bose. For a short term passenger, I prefer the Bose cause it is simple and quiet. For a long term passenger (wife) halo is the way to go. My wife was using the Bose and didn't even want to try Halo cause she thought it would be uncomfortable. I bought one for her anyway and she swore she wouldn't use the Bose again after the first try. When my Halo was out for repair, I got stuck using the Bose if that tells you anything...

[amillet]

Our 97 J came from the factory with both LEMO and conventional plugs & toggle switch to choose input.  I bought Lightspeeds with LEMO plugs to eliminate the batteries which always seemed to run out in the pattern at a busy airport when I didn't have time to replace them.

[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, chrisk said:

The Halos are passive, and basically foam plugs with a channel for the sound to enter.  They are very light wight and sound fantastic.  They also do a great job blocking the noise.   And it turns out I have the Bose QC25s, which are the generation after the QC15.  The Bose head set is a consumer noise canceling audio head set.  One nice feature is the cord can be completely detached.   When turned on it makes a noticeable difference in the noise level.  See http://blog.aopa.org/flighttraining/?p=65 for more info on using consumer headsets in the plane. 

 

 

I gotta try this.  I've got a set of QC15's riding back on the hat rack as the forth passenger headset option. I've never thought to use them over the Halo's.

I've got the Bose QC15's with the Ufly Mike. I've also got a set of Zulu2's. My wife and I both use Halo's as our preferred headsets.

[ArtVandelay]

Our 97 J came from the factory with both LEMO and conventional plugs & toggle switch to choose input.  I bought Lightspeeds with LEMO plugs to eliminate the batteries which always seemed to run out in the pattern at a busy airport when I didn't have time to replace them.

The Bose A20s last about 50hrs on a pair of batteries, they give you a couple hours of warning via indicator light. They'll still work minus the fancy noise reduction even if you somehow forget to change batteries.

[cujet]

In our Pilatus PC-12's and EC-135 helicopter (yes both are different from a piston powered airplane) the Lightspeed headsets get into some form of a feedback resonance. Pushing them on tighter stops the issue, at least temporarily. When this happens, it actually hurts my ears. I have come to despise Lightspeed headsets. 

The Bose series 10 and 20 don't seem to do this. Even so, they do put significant, transient, air pressure on the ear drums as I move my head around, say, looking for traffic. 

I find that I'm most comfortable and least fatigued with the "Clarity Aloft" ear bud headsets. They fit me well and are, in the end, far less annoying. 

[HRM]

On November 18, 2015 at 3:39:59 PM, 1964-M20E said:

I've heard from audiologists some negatives regarding noise canceling headsets.  They are generating sound energy to cancel the ambient noise so is there more noise energy with them???

Energy is added to the signal being amplified and fed into the earpieces of an ANR headset.

That energy is such that the outside sounds that are detected by a microphone are used to cancel sound energy in the earphone signal.

This cancellation is not perfect and the better the electronics, the more efficient the process.

Hands down, the Bose A20 are the best at this and the very small amount of "excess energy" would not be sufficient to cause any concern.

I often forget to turn on the ANR when I start my plane. The headset's passive protection is more than enough to protect my hearing, but when I switch on the ANR the engine noise disappears in an eerie, almost magical way.

As we age our hearing issues are not confined to the ear itself, but also how we process information. This is why it is essential for older pilots to use ANR headsets in order to understand ATC because added noise only confounds the brain more.

[Piloto]

For long trips I use these: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/earplugs1.php?recfer=21720 rubber ear plugs in addition to my Telex headsets. The combination works very well. Even without headsets you can use the plugs comfortably, specially for your passengers. For the price of $1.45/pair you can have a new pair for every new passenger. I found the attenuation to be better than Bose ANRs and they are not affected by eyeglasses or long hair. 

José

[HRM]

27 minutes ago, Piloto said:

 I found the attenuation to be better than Bose ANRs and they are not affected by eyeglasses or long hair. 

Sound pressure; i.e., the force that sound makes on your eardrum is what can damage your hearing if it is too great. That force is easily controlled by a passive headset or earplugs.

The price one pays to control that pressure by either a headset or earplug is the disturbance, by attenuation, of the information content of the sound.

An ANR headset first protects the ear first from sound pressure by encapsulating it in a shield, which attenuates damaging sounds along with information-bearing sound.

The ANR headset electronics then reduces the effect of noise by subtracting it out of the inside of the ear cup. What you don't want is to throw the baby out with the bathwater; i.e., attenuate the information bearing channel, which is what you are getting from the headset input. The better the design, the better this happens.

The alternative is to put the information channel through the middle of an earplug and this is all that the Halos are. What you are paying for is the engineering that went into the tubular sound guide that they developed.

So: plugs & passive headset equals attenuated information. Works fine for young, undamaged ears.

Bose or Halos: basically a personal preference kind of thing.

 

[Bob_Belville]

On 11/20/2015, 2:59:03, WardHolbrook said:

... I'd rather have a used good one than a new mediocre/poor one. I've know guys who bought "well used" David Clarks and sent them back for refurbishment and ended up with essentially new headsets for a fraction of the new price. Finally, headsets are like motorcycle helmets, they do you no good unless you use them. 

When I returned to flying after a very long gap I contacted DC in Worcester and sent them 2 headsets from the '70s. They refurbed to as good as new for a little more than $100. each. Fine company. Very solid headsets. 

[HRM]

On November 20, 2015 at 1:59:03 AM, WardHolbrook said:

I've know guys who bought "well used" David Clarks and sent them back for refurbishment and ended up with essentially new headsets for a fraction of the new price. Finally, headsets are like motorcycle helmets, they do you no good unless you use them. 

I just want to point out that DC headsets are like VW Beetles. You can get any part for them and they are easy to refurbish!

I inherited a DC when I bought my E. I was able to return it to "like new" status very, very inexpensively. My pax have no need to understand ATC and DCs have been protecting pilot's ears for decades.

Look here.

[mikefox]

Since I started flying 20 years ago, I have always had the best active noise-canceling headsets available (use Bose 20 now).  No measurable hearing loss!  I guess that is only one data point, not a controlled study, but I'm not messing with a good thing!

My experience teaching in a large number of different GA aircraft with noise-canceling headsets is that depending on the aircraft, you may not hear some of the warning sounds (horns, beeps, etc.) or they may sound substantially different.  This includes stall warning horns and gear warnings.  As a result, I leave the noise canceling off at takeoff, and turn it on as part of my initial climb checklist, and turn the noise canceling off again pre-landing.

[nels]

29 minutes ago, mikefox said:

Since I started flying 20 years ago, I have always had the best active noise-canceling headsets available (use Bose 20 now).  No measurable hearing loss!  I guess that is only one data point, not a controlled study, but I'm not messing with a good thing!

My experience teaching in a large number of different GA aircraft with noise-canceling headsets is that depending on the aircraft, you may not hear some of the warning sounds (horns, beeps, etc.) or they may sound substantially different.  This includes stall warning horns and gear warnings.  As a result, I leave the noise canceling off at takeoff, and turn it on as part of my initial climb checklist, and turn the noise canceling off again pre-landing.

I thought if I were to double up with hearing protection I would do the same thing, off on take off and landing but on  all other times.

I am able to hear the warning horns with my active headsets but they are not at all pronounced. I am considering having the horns connected to the headsets per another forum post several weeks ago.

[Zwaustin]

Bose A20... very quiet, very comfortable on 4 hours trips. No issues at all. Cost a lot but worth it in long run.