Oshkosh Crash

[N33GG]

You make the wrong judgment decision, all the stick and rudder skills in the universe can't save you.

[mike_elliott]

For me, this is the very reason why I switched to flying in the Caravan.  The FISK arrival scares the living daylights out of me.

I remember the last Caravan I flew in, after we all landed and taxied to the camping area and tied down, we sat and watched the planes coming in on the Fisk arrival. My then girlfriend now wife Alice, who was a newbie to Oshkosh, let me know in no uncertain terms she doesn't want me to ever fly the Fisk arrival into Oshkosh. This was right after she observed a couple in the Caravan having a near miss and hearing "Break right Break right" on the caravan frequency. We were in a terrific position  (right in front of Mooney tail Jonathan Paul) to observe how 2 hours of briefing and supposed practice flying the profile is meaningless unless one executes.

The fisk arrival ASSUMES everyone actually reads and executes the NOTAM perfecty. Not so much is what we observed.

[gsengle]

Having done the Fisk arrival 3-4 times now, last two in my Ovation, I'd say the hard part isn't the landing - those are nice big runways, with grass all around.  The scary part is the merge at the start, or holding over the lake.  The potential for mid air collisions seems huge.  I was practically in slow flight for what seemed like forever following some slow poke last time in...

 

The first time I did the approach, I had to drop through a cloud deck - cloud layer at maybe 3500 ft - maybe 20 miles before the approach begins - and I felt like I had dropped into a WW2 movie with aircraft everywhere...

 

g

[KSMooniac]

Very true, g!  The really dangerous part is getting everyone in the conga line, especially those that haven't read the NOTAM or are just buttholes.  In 2010 (after the Caravan was washed-out) I flew the Fisk arrival and had a jerk cut in line right in front of me about a mile before the first ground controller.  I got called out for following too close and was told to leave and re-enter.  I was pissed, but couldn't do anything about it.

[N9201A]

I rented a house below the Fisk merge point one year. One day I sat and watched with a couple beers. I gave up after an hour, it was just too stressful!

Everyone on the Fisk arrival is already flying formation. They just don't know it, haven't practiced it, briefed it, or met the other pilots with whom they're sharing a runway.

We've all seen several accidents that've closed a runway or the whole airport. Roush mentioned other traffic as a factor too in his jet bending. The controllers are just trying to push iron, they're relying on each pilot to execute or say "unable."

Each year we have an interloper see the Caravan stream and try to join. And each year I think "wow, I'm glad I'm with people I know, trained with, and can trust to execute instead of throwing in with a bunch of strangers who may've not trained at all!" It IS the execution. 11 years with the group, no Fisk for me.

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[Stefanovm]

The crash did keep me from meeting a commitment 75 miles NE. That was followed by a maintenance challenge suspected on the way from Madison and confirmed when OSH finally opened after the crash. The afternoon closure kept us from departing until almost 7 pm. I did get my commitment rescheduled.

I had vowed to never visit OSH as I would only wanted to fly the trip personally, no drive and no commercial.

The untrained bee type buzz around OSH and the crowds on the ground kept me from going. The Caravan Clan changed that for me this year. We will Caravan again in 2016, but may eliminate the camping and ONLY fly via the Caravan.

 

Call Signs-Crank and T-Rex, affectionately bestowed by the Caravan policies.

[aviatoreb]

This is what air traffic looks like near Oshkosh.

[Houman]

This is what air traffic looks like near Oshkosh.

Hi Erik, I think we missed each other by couple of minutes, I was talking to your prop guy and they said you were there about 5 to 10 minutes before... Did you came by the Mooney Caravan tent ?

[OBX-Pilot]

FWIW I witnessed this accident from near the departure end of 27. I was waiting for a shuttle bus just kind of looking around at airplanes when I saw the Malibu go nose down and drop a wing. Classic base to final approach stall I believe. It appeared the nose was just beginning to come up as it hit. She fireballed on impact. I was happily stunned to hear there were survivors later, apparently the wings sheared off. If they hadn't I doubt there would be any survivors, the fireball was immense. I would guess it was heavily loaded and that exacerbated the situation.

 

My own impression was the controllers do a fantastic job at Oshkosh.  If you read the Airventure Notam and watch some of the You Tube videos it is pretty obvious what is going to be required of the pilots. The guy I flew there with asked me to go work with him some on changing his point of landing short final and flying a tighter pattern two weeks before we went. (In my experience it's rarely the pilots who ask an instructor for help that really need it.)

 

The flying is more challenging than a Sunday tour around the pea patch but in my opinion well within the capability of a proficient Private Pilot. 

 

[gsengle]

Since you witnessed it, at what altitude did they stall? I can't imagine it would have been survivable from more than 30 feet if in free fall....

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[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, OBX-P.

Best regards,

-a-

[OBX-Pilot]

Since you witnessed it, at what altitude did they stall? I can't imagine it would have been survivable from more than 30 feet if in free fall....

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Two caveats. 1) I didn't have my glasses on (uncorrected vision 20/30) and the distance was over a mile. 2) I noted the aircraft , turned to answer someones question about when the airshow started and when I looked back the airplane was in the process of going nose down and dropping a wing. I had time to say "Oh no, oh no..." and then the airplane hit. It appeared to me to just be beginning to recover from the stall immediately prior to impact.

 

I have seen several aircraft "go in" in my life and was simply amazed there were survivors on this. It was only after seeing a post crash photo that I could understand how it could have been survivable and that is the wings, where the vast majority of the fuel was, broke away. 

 

One other thing that was noteworthy. A bystander who was nearby rushed into the aircraft and pulled the one badly injured person out. Makes me proud to be a human ... 

[gsengle]

Sounds like the stall recovery was in the nick of time

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[aviatoreb]

Hi Erik, I think we missed each other by couple of minutes, I was talking to your prop guy and they said you were there about 5 to 10 minutes before... Did you came by the Mooney Caravan tent ?

 

No kidding! Darn!  Well - we are just 20 min from each other back home...come by and visit!

[M20F]

Flew in today and the skid and burn mark is still highly visible on the south end of 27 threshold at a 45 degree angle. Thumbs up to the blue and white Mooney M who passed 100' under my right wing (about 1700 feet) about 100' laterally doing 135+ knots, no gear down, etc. right at Fisk. Continues to amaze me that people can't be bothered to read or perhaps comprehend the 3-4 relevant pages in the Notam.

The F-22 I have to say was pretty awesome, I need to get me one of those.

[74657]

That was my plane. Preliminary NTSB report is published.

[flyboy0681]

I just read The Kathryn report. The word "miraculous" comes to mind when viewing the photos.

 

You said it was your plane, but were you flying it?

[gsengle]

How is everyone on board? Anyone have the report link?

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[Gone]

It is at http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150722X51858&key=1

Ned Gravel

Lucky steward of C-FSWR, a '65 E model at Rockcliffe, Ontario, (CYRO)

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[KSMooniac]

How is everyone on board? Anyone have the report link?

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I heard through the grapevine that the severely injured right/front pax is much better now and expected to make a full recovery, thankfully!

[Houman]

I saw the huge explosion from the Mooney tent instantly as it happened, obviously we were too far and too many planes in the field of view to see what really happend. Not wanting to second guess the pilot, but I think the tone and directives of the controllers on FISC arrivals make it more difficult and intimidating for a pilot to declare unable and go around.

From reading the report, he was given a much closer landing point after seeing the twin on the runway, so he had too much energy and not enough room to loose it... The only great thing about this story was that there were no fatalities.

[Shadrach]

It reads like this guy tried to transition into a short field technique due to his TDZ being revised to a point 1500ft closer than originally instructed after seeing a twin enter the runway...all while flying a plane that was on the heavy side on a hot day.

I am sure the probable cause will read "The pilot's failure to..." but there was a lot going on for this guy. This guy's real mistake was not using the word "unable" when told to cut his TDZ by a quarter mile while in the late stages of a relatively tight pattern. I've never flown a meridian, but I doubt this kind of a maneuver is its strong suit. I feel bad for this pilot.

[Shadrach]

I read a first-hand account on Beechtalk from a pilot witness waiting to takeoff on another runway that said there was no incursion and just a screwed-up base to final turn.

 

Reading the prelim, has reinforced my feeling that the Beechtalk member giving his "first-hand" account is a total "Delta Bravo"...  It's one thing to speculate about the cause of an accident, it's quite another to say "I was there and this is what happened" only to have it later revealed that you were full of $hit.

[flyboy0681]

Reading the prelim, has reinforced my feeling that the Beechtalk member giving his "first-hand" account is a total "Delta Bravo"...  It's one thing to speculate about the cause of an accident, it's quite another to say "I was there and this is what happened" only to have it later revealed that you were full of $hit.

 

What did the Beech witness say?

[Shadrach]

What did the Beech witness say?

No runway incursion, just a base to final f#*% up.

Exact words were-

"Winds were calm. Screwed up base to final. Nothing else."

The way I read it, there was a lot more going on.