Pre-Purchase Inspections

[Badmoonraising]

Would someone be kinda as to tell me how to do a "Pre" purchase inspection? Or should I call it a "pre-pre purchase inspection"? Before I would involve the expense of a professionals time. I'd like to know how to do an inspection so that I don't waste his time or the sellers time. Photos and/or diagrams would be helpful. Please assume I know nothing about Mooney's at all. That's not a stretch actually.

 

As posted in "First Mooney" here, I am coming across a number of old birds that have not run or been moved in years. I can see they are big projects. The inner child in me wants to take on the project but the logical (barely) side of me knows it would take a lot of time and money. 

[Robert C.]

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/agingaircraft/downloads/prebuy_checklist.pdf

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/Tips-on-Buying-Used-Aircraft

 

If you google aircraft pre-purchase inspection tips/checklist/etc. you're likely to find another bunch of good ideas.

 

Good luck!

[carusoam]

A PPI for somebody that doesn't know what a PPI is...

Essentially hiring a service to inspect the plane for its value.

Anything that has been un-used while sitting outside can be incredibly expensive to fix.

Why would you not buy something that has been continuously flying?

1) they have higher prices?

2) they have most of their AW issues taken care of?

3) you are looking for a project that you don't have the A&P license to fix?

4) you are hoping somebody with a perfectly good airplane got too old to fly it and didn't want to sell it at a higher price.

Can you sense where this comes from?

If you are an A&P mechanic with time, skills and money, you could get lucky...

Are you looking to convert some of your extra cash into a project?

Some of us here do these types of things...

First cut, or pre-PPI is best done with you own eyes. See it in person. Read the scanned logs in advance. If you can't go see it yourself, it is a better plane for somebody else.

What are your thoughts?

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/prepurchase_inspections.html

 

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/prepurchasehowwhy.html

 

http://www.lasar.com/sales/checklist.asp

 

https://mooneym20.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/project-mooney/dsc_0058/

 

http://home.comcast.net/~mjcoyle/aviation/mooney-primer.html

[FloridaMan]

From another thread:

 

 

Nearly all the above posts mirror the same response. Without ever seeing the aircraft I might add... Few people can fully articulate why they will offer such advice. Or even offer a single valid reason why an old, unairworthy aircraft should not be purchased. 

 

So, I'll offer a professional's opinion: 

 

All mechanical things deteriorate and aircraft are no exception. Except,,, your life depends on the quality of many structural and dynamic components. I purchased such an aircraft, with the intention of rebuilding, overhauling and repairing every aspect of the bird. The overhaul took me 2 years. My reasoning was that I'd know the condition of each and every part. Somewhere North of 2000 man hours later, I was flying. At my current level of income, those hours could have purchased a really, really nice, powerful, newer, very capable aircraft. 

 

What I found was that nothing on the plane was in acceptable shape and I mean NOTHING. Even the smallest aluminum part was either corroded or worn out. Every bushing and bearing needed replacement. Every bolt was corroded, every clamp/fitting/bit of hardware/tubing/clevis/oring/seal/baffle/hose/actuator/connector/breaker/wire, you name it, was cracked, worn out, damaged, brittle, dry rotted and in need of replacement. 

 

Sure, I ended up with an airworthy airplane that I fully trust (and that was my intention) . The cost was staggering, my labor was free, and, it still needs a paint job... 2000 hours labor @ $90/hr = $180,000. And the airplane is still worth $40,000. Sure, I could have ignored the cosmetics. But, as you may have guessed, that's not where the majority of the time went. 

 

Don't do it unless you specifically want such a project, can afford the enormous expense, have the time, and expertise. AND, you are fully willing to deal with some major setbacks, such as a corroded wing spar (needs a new wing) or other unexpected major component replacement. 

 

Check out my simple website detailing my project:

 

www.cujet.com

 

[chrisk]

 

As posted in "First Mooney" here, I am coming across a number of old birds that have not run or been moved in years. I can see they are big projects. The inner child in me wants to take on the project but the logical (barely) side of me knows it would take a lot of time and money. 

 

You will be far better off by buying a plane that has been flying the last few years. 

 

As for a pre-purchase:  Start by asking what doesn't work or needs attention.  Find out if the plane is kept in a hangar.  Then move to the logs.  How may hours has the plane accumulated over the last 3 years?  Has it had regular oil changes?   Are there any recent long periods of inactivity?    Then go see it.   Look for fuel leaks (blue stains).  Look for things that have not been done properly.  Look for corrosion (first look on the internet to see what corrosion looks like).  I'd look at the spar on the wheel wells, and then have the owner pull an inspection panel of two.  Then go for a test flight.  Try everything out.  Do all the avionics work?   After all that, then you are ready to hire a knowledgeable mechanic to perform a pre-purchase inspection. And the PPI should be turned into an annual if all looks good.

[Yetti]

Get the Mooney 100 hour/annual inspection form and start from there. Know your capabilities and limitations. Seek help on the limitations. There is nothing hard or special to work on a plane,  There are good A&P and some not so careful A&Ps.   Things will break after you buy one weather it is flying or not.  Engines are a roll the dice.  Go into it expecting to R&R every different system.   There are flying planes with 40 year old hoses that pass annuals and PPI.  For some that is acceptable, other not acceptable.   A phrase I learned "Level of precision"

[Badmoonraising]

Thanks guys. This is good advice and it's advice I am going to take. I have too many interests and demands on my time. I want to fly, sail, ski, hunt, motorcycle and chase women. 

 

If in the end I end up with the same thing I could have bought - then way bother...

[FloridaMan]

I'd go so far as to say that there is no such thing as a "Barn Find" in aviation, unless it's an aircraft of historical significance. The best you can hope for is to get a good deal on a good airplane that is in service, and even then, expect something to cost you a couple thousand to fix shortly after getting it. Even scrutinizing owners who are selling airworthy airplanes will often skip on big ticket upcoming items until they're absolutely due. 

 

Make sure you read the "Just learned my C is junk" thread for one item that can ruin your day. 

 

With that said, you should be able to find a good, airworthy C,E or F with old avionics for < $35,000. Also keep in mind that your airworthy vintage airplane has already depreciated and if you are willing to list it for a few thousand less than comparable airplanes you can likely sell it almost immediately. They require more attention than other toys and the cheapest way to keep the airplane in good running condition is to fly it at least an hour a week and to change the oil frequently. 

[cliffy]

Buy the book "How to Buy An Airplane Without Taking a Dive".  It will be the best thing you can do BEFORE you even look at airplanes.   

[jetdriven]

The last guy I saw bought an M20E for 65K. Awful sand and paint job, ok interior. Old radios. Dubious shade tree overhaul with 500 hours on it. . And his first annual the estimate from Maxwell for repairs exceeded 25K. So now he's in it for a hundred grand, it needs paint and radios and likely in another 500 hours an engine.

[eman1200]

The last guy I saw bought an M20E for 65K. Awful sand and paint job, ok interior. Old radios. Dubious shade tree overhaul with 500 hours on it. . And his first annual the estimate from Maxwell for repairs exceeded 25K. So now he's in it for a hundred grand, it needs paint and radios and likely in another 500 hours an engine.

Is the message here that this could have most likely been avoided with a PPI?

[carusoam]

PPI, Mooney experienced shop...

Blowing a couple of AMUs, saving tens of AMUs...

There are two types of feelings when buying a plane...

-angry that you wasted money on a PPI for a perfectly good plane. Turn the PPI into an annual for best value.

-angry that you didn't spend enough on a PPI and got stuck writing about the hidden disaster you found after you own it.

The PPI is similar to insurance. You are purchasing something to protect your wallet from the unknown. After a year with no accidents, you write about how much is wasted on insurance.

It is dissapointing to spend money on a PPI and have it fail. My first attempt to buy a plane, the PPI exposed a few stretched or broken rivets on a Cherokee. Under the chipping paint was Bondo patches that were falling off. The seller was invited to meet at the local small claims court to refund my money. His wife explained the owner had just forgotten to send the payment...

It would be really dissapointing to own something you can't fly and have to fix...

The PPI on the Cherokee took all of five minutes. The mechanic pointed out the broken rivets and popped Bondo. The plane had suffered many hard landings...

-a-