Landing a Ovation 3 on a 2500 feet runways

[ChristianGodin]

I am interested by a Ovation 3. The airport I would park the airplane has a 2500 feet runways. Could those that own an Ovation are confortable landing an taking off on a 2500 feet runways?

'Thank You

[N201MKTurbo]

I don't own an ovation, but it should get off the ground better then your J. I would think it would land about the same. What does the book say?

[Will W]

At what altitude? What are your approach end/ departure end obstruction heights?

[ChristianGodin]

Sea level and no obstruction either sude of the runways.

[Will W]

Not a problem at all. Just keep in mind if you start to look at ovation 2s, only consider a 3 bladed prop.

[triple8s]

That can be done but not by a sloppy pilot. The take off wouldnt be an issue, but landing would require proper approach speeds or youd be touching down on the threshold......after floating in ground effect for 2499 ft.

[aviatoreb]

I am interested by a Ovation 3. The airport I would park the airplane has a 2500 feet runways. Could those that own an Ovation are confortable landing an taking off on a 2500 feet runways?

'Thank You

 

If memory serves, Mitch and Jolie have an Ovation - I forget which one - but I think they may be operating out of a 2300 ft field - working from memory so I could be wrong - but maybe message them and ask?

[Andy95W]

A good friend has an Ovation 3 and flies it off our fairly crappy 3,000x40 runway, with trees at both ends, landing distance available about 2200 after displaced threshholds.

He doesn't think twice about it, but he flies 200 hours a year, is a current CFI, and really flies his airplane well. As noted above, not a problem except for a sloppy pilot.

[ChristianGodin]

Thank You. It's appreciated...

[AndyFromCB]

Your speeds have to be dead on and I mean dead on for your weight. I feel a lot better with at least 3000 in my Bravo.

[carqwik]

+1 about the speeds...

 

I turned off exactly halfway on a 3800 foot runway a few weeks ago (for the math challenged, that was 1900 feet of runway used) in my Bravo at about 200 lbs under gross...  My aim point was the piano keys...and was very careful on the approach speeds. 

 

Coming back to my home 'drome (after another stop), I probably burned up about 4000 feet of runway landing at light weight and carrying about five knots excess speed....my aim point was the 1,000' marker and flew by them in ground effect....

[donkaye, MCFI]

L52, Oceano is 2360 feet.  With no significant crosswind and correct speed, that airport should not be any problem.  Sea level ground roll for the Ovation is 1,000 in standard conditions.  I would highly recommend an AOA to be comfortably able to shave off 5 knots from book speed.

 

The best I've done with the Ovation was the 2100 foot airport at Fallbrook, California.  Too short for the average Ovation pilot in my opinion.

[donkaye, MCFI]

+1 about the speeds...

 

I turned off exactly halfway on a 3800 foot runway a few weeks ago (for the math challenged, that was 1900 feet of runway used) in my Bravo at about 200 lbs under gross...  My aim point was the piano keys...and was very careful on the approach speeds. 

 

Coming back to my home 'drome (after another stop), I probably burned up about 4000 feet of runway landing at light weight and carrying about five knots excess speed....my aim point was the 1,000' marker and flew by them in ground effect....

 

Ground roll for the Bravo at sea level in standard conditions is 1200 feet.  You either landed with a tailwind or were coming in waaaaay too fast to burn up that kind of runway.  I don't have the 4 puck brakes and can easily stop in 800 feet--or less at 1.2 Vso.

[Tommy]

Do you have speed brake? 

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm another Bravo driver (so similar weights and speeds to an Ov, less power, but less affected by altitude), without Don's experience and currency, and based at a 3000' field 800' AMSL. Getting in is easy - under normal conditions I could easily make do with 1500', Getting out at max gross and ISA+15 is not a problem with 3000', but there's not a great deal of excess. 200lbs under gross makes a big difference, and I'd be checking the POH thoroughly - with an Ov3 and the extra power you might be fine, but I think it's worth getting your hands on a POH and working it through.

[Jeff_S]

As a relatively new O3 driver my experience may be relevant to you. I flew my J for four years and could comfortably shoe-horn that thing into any tight space I could find. The O has been a learning experience, with its heavier weight and faster speeds.  What other posters have said is key...speed control is number one. I also find the O to be much less tolerant of any kind of bounce...with that big weight up front you have to be very careful to keep the nose off, but not TOO high, because it can come down hard and really ruin your day.

 

But I've got 42 hours and 46 landings on it now and it's starting to click. At my home 'drome, taxiway Delta is 2400' from either approach end of the longer runway and the last three times I used that runway I've made the turnoff there without squealing the tires.

 

As to takeoffs, don't give it a second thought. With 310hp that plane leaps off the runway before you even have time to dial in full throttle.

[aviatoreb]

L52, Oceano is 2360 feet.  With no significant crosswind and correct speed, that airport should not be any problem.  Sea level ground roll for the Ovation is 1,000 in standard conditions.  I would highly recommend an AOA to be comfortably able to shave off 5 knots from book speed.

 

The best I've done with the Ovation was the 2100 foot airport at Fallbrook, California.  Too short for the average Ovation pilot in my opinion.

 

I'm curious Don how much safety margin you build in to that 2100 ft?  How much ground roll is that?

 

I also have an AoA and I think its terrific for all phases of flight, esp anywhere near the pattern, but especially if a performance landing is called for.

 

I am shy to land on anything less than 2500 ft, even though I have shown myself repeatedly that 1500-1600 ft of ground roll is not too much problem.

[triple8s]

I am shy to land on anything less than 2500 ft, even though I have shown myself repeatedly that 1500-1600 ft of ground roll is not too much problem.

And the thing that gets me.......if the speeds are dead on, 2500ft seems so easy, hell it is easy, but get distracted for two seconds and let the speed get off and you will get a huge dose of humility!

[M20S Driver]

I am interested by a Ovation 3. The airport I would park the airplane has a 2500 feet runways. Could those that own an Ovation are confortable landing an taking off on a 2500 feet runways?

'Thank You

 

I get in and out of KPAO (my home base~2400 feet) and no issues so far.  I bought a copy of Don Kaye's landing video and that was very helpful.  

The only time that I was concerned about landing was when we have 10-15 kt gusty cross winds which pushed the limit on my personal minimum. 

[carusoam]

Summation...(written before SDriver's input above was available)

1) Yes it can be done...

2) It requires good PP precision...

3) There are tools that help: AOA, 310hp, TopProp and a particular landing video would go a long way...

4) there is one performance tool to measure your skills in your plane. CloudAhoy app. Measures actual Take-off and landing distances. SkyRadar or similar WAAS GPS device required....

5) what makes me uncomfortable..... Full power, full speed, 1/2 way down the runway at 60 KIAS, trees are getting bigger by the second...

Rotation occurs at 65.... Room for the decision to stop is decreasing...

Making the 310hp upgrade decision was pretty easy after having the 'uncomfortable' experience.

O1 = 1200' (as usual, check your own facts! I make errors.)

O3 powered O1 = 800'

I like to be off the ground or stopping hard by the halfway point....

6) Landing is easier on the comfort level. If not on target speed and altitude, go around....

7) There is a tool to aid for this as well... Speed brakes...

8) two other important tools to have, training and recency.

The O flys by the numbers really well. It is up to the pilot to do this every time...

Some days 4,000' seems short...

I think I'll go order that video,

-a-

[rbp]

flew my Bravo in and out of KPAO and KSQL with no difficulty at all.

one way to practice is to find an airport with a long runway, and a taxiway less than 2,000ft from the threshold, and keep practicing your landings until you can make the first taxiway with no problem.  I used taxiway Echo on 27R at KOAK, its 1200ft down the runway. the key is weight and speed.

 

on departure, you have very little control, except to hold the brakes until you have full power, and memorize the pitch attitude for Vx (85kias in a Bravo). 

[gjkirsch]

As a Bravo pilot, I have flown into a 2200 ft runway but it is not some place I would be want to be based at.  Throw in an instrument approach, a cross wind when you want to carry a little more speed, a night landing and so on and you have to be dead nuts on every time in every condition.  Not worth it to me.  

[AndyFromCB]

As a Bravo pilot, I have flown into a 2200 ft runway but it is not some place I would be want to be based at.  Throw in an instrument approach, a cross wind when you want to carry a little more speed, a night landing and so on and you have to be dead nuts on every time in every condition.  Not worth it to me.  

 

Yeap, 

 

It's all fine and dandy on calm wind, mild day. My personal minimum for instrument approach runway for Bravo is 5000ft. Why? Because I don't like hanging around in the clouds all day, which means it's not uncommon I will cross the threshold somewhere around 85 to 90 knots or higher if no flaps due to icing. I need 3000ft to bleed that off if I don't pre flare outside of ground effect to slow down to 70. They really should teach pre flare in IFR training. It's a lot easier to bleed speed off at 50ft than at 5ft.

 

2500 is more than doable for take off, for landing, should be no problem. I normally get off at first taxiway at my home airport which is 2750ft and that's without using much brakes. However, if I cross the numbers at anything higher than 75knots when heavy or 70knots when light, I will not make it. Each 5knots extra is 1000ft extra on a no wind day.

 

Crosswinds don't seem to affect my numbers but I have never felt the need to increase speed for crosswinds. Same speed, same technique, crab and kick into a slip, full flaps and all. My personal record so far is 26knots and it felt like the wingtip was going to scrape, but it was far from it. At no point did I feel like I was running out of control authority.

[Danb]

I agree with Don and Charlie re 2500 being enough reason to fly by the numbers my aoa helps on the base and final but am not sure re the actual landing roll and point, makes you wonder if conditions or you tired if you'd be ok all the time. Add some gusty crosswinds and not quite being up to par the end of the runway comes up quickly.i really like Andys thought process in that regard for our long bodies...good luck in your decision making and fly safe...dons CDs and insight will be very helpful...

[stevesm20b]

Should have no problem landing with 2000 or more feet of runway.