So I want a bravo, how to pick a good one.

[Jetlag]

First plane purchase.  Any bravo owners want to comment on things i should look out for on buying?  i've been trying to learn all i can from this forum. as a first time buyer for a Bravo is there anything I should look out for?
 

[Danb]

The obvious is a strong pre purchase inspection, make sure you fly one especially an older model

Due to their higher panel you must be able to see over.then have it meet all your needs so you don't have to invest to much more in your 1st yr of ownership...realize the Bravo likes fuel and most don't run good LOP...they are great trip machines, try to get long range tanks and TKS in an effort to maximize its usefulness...good luck...I love mine had owned 2 J models in the past, which also are great....

[carusoam]

Know the seller.

Good PPI.

Purchase agreement.

Bravo specific transition training.

Strong sense of logic combined with the ability to walk away.

Is this your first plane purchase?

Things that help when buying expensive machinery,

-a-

[John Pleisse]

Try to find one first run, at tbo and get the best deal you can toward an OH? This is the $64,000 question..........literally. It takes wheel barrel loads of money to keep one great. Inherriting someone else's engine managment shortcomings would be last on my list. Also, as is typical with high flying machines, some have corrosion issues from trapped moist air consensing at colder temps in the FL's. TKS would be nice too.

[FlyDave]

I think the above suggestion is a good one. That being said, I got an engine that had 500 hours on new cylinders from the Bravo upgrade but hadn't flown much for a number of years. I've put ~150 hours on the plane since last December so in the last 4 years it's flown ~430 hours. Mine runs great with excellent compressions on my first annual this past May.

From what I've read, the TIO-540 is a pretty stout engine and with the Bravo upgrade (TIO-540-AF1B) an engine should make TBO if it's treated well. Try to find one that has had an engine monitor that you can download data from. That will tell you a lot about how the previous engine was flown.

Get a prebuy done by a good MSC that knows the Bravo. They'll know what to look for as far as common issues with this model (things like cracked exhaust transition, etc.).

But just remember that when you do buy an airplane - ANY AIRPLANE - things will break in the first year so BE PREPARED TO SPEND UNPLANNED MONEY AFTER THE PURCHASE.

[gjkirsch]

You did not say what your experience level has been or how deep is your pocket book.  These are great planes.  The engines, since converted to the wet head are very reliable and cylinders tend to do well.  That said, they are not inexpensive to operate, insure, or maintain. I figure $30K a year to fly 100 hours. 

 

They climb great and can handle a lot of weather (with TKS).  They are good long distance planes and you will go through (or over) weather fronts.  They are best from the high teens to low flight levels (winds permitting). 

[wolftimj]

This might be a little premature for several different reasons, but my 1997 Bravo might be for sale here shortly. I'm getting one of those turbine Mooneys made over in France to replace my beloved Bravo.

 

My plan was to get the current plane spiffed up a bit at a detail shop up in Oklahoma City, then put it on the market hoping my search for the right TBM would come shortly afterwards. If you're interested you can email me at wolftj@mindspring.com, and you can ask Don Maxwell about the plane, he's the only one I let work on her (N9159C).

 

The short version of N9159C: Dual Aspens, 530W, 430W, 796 on yoke with cross fill, Ryan TCAD, Strikefinder, GDL69, GMA350, Radar Altimeter, FIKI TKS, KFC-150 w/ alt preselect, KT76C, EDM-730, Shadin fuel flow, King ADF and DME, 730-ish on new engine, 75-76 on all cylinders last annual, flies about 200/hrs a year, NDH and complete logs.

 

Tim Wolf

[carusoam]

Tim,

When is the expected transition?

Go turbine Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

First plane purchase.  Any bravo owners want to comment on things i should look out for on buying?  i've been trying to learn all i can from this forum. as a first time buyer for a Bravo is there anything I should look out for?

 

Make sure the crank AD has been complied with, there is still useful life on the ox cyl, shock disks have been replaced within the last 8 to 10 years, tanks don't leak, Mortz gauges all work correctly, AP works correctly including the King HSI, the usual prebuy stuff like mags being OH'd within the 500 hr SB on slicks, etc. 

Suggest having Don Maxwell do a prebuy then roll it into a fresh annual. He will sort out the good ones from the stinkers and you will be $$ ahead, IMHO.

[Awful_Charlie]

For the tanks, have the owner fill it up the day before, and be there when he opens up the next day

 

If TKS equipped, check the stall strips (800 bucks each) and demand to see the system operating and verify that all the panels are seeping similarly and all over (2000 bucks each). That might get through a gallon or two of expensive fluid, so agree when and where it's going to be done (it will make a mess of a hangar floor) and if a contribution is in order.

[donkaye]

I've had mine for 22 years.  30K per year for 100 hours per year is pretty close.  If not in the North, TKS not necessary and costs a lot to maintain.  I like 2.5 hours trips so if you are anything like me FORGET ONE WITH THE LONG RANGE TANKS.  You never really know how much fuel you have in the plane.  With the standard 89 gallons the plane is a 2 person, full fuel, and full baggage airplane, so unless you fly alone the long rage tanks are a waste, especially if you have TKS, too.

 

DON'T buy a G1000 airplane.  The WAAS upgrade path is non existent at present.

 

When you do buy the plane make sure you get good Mooney specific instruction from a person well versed in the Bravo.

[carqwik]

Are the current Acclaims from the factory WAAS-enabled?  If so, how hard would it be to certify the older G1000 birds? Is it just paperwork, factory-required certification, or new hardware or some combination?

[carusoam]

The last current Acclaim was built in 2008...

At least there will be new owners supporting the next steps?

Or the G1000 rev2.0 will be close enough to help....?

How does that sound for simple update....?

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye]

Are the current Acclaims from the factory WAAS-enabled?  If so, how hard would it be to certify the older G1000 birds? Is it just paperwork, factory-required certification, or new hardware or some combination?

 

I was referring to the GX Bravo which finished production before the WAAS G1000 were available.  Definitely new hardware and paperwork.  I don't believe the new Acclaims have ADS-B yet.  I'm sure with Mooney up and running again in time they will go back and fix the problem. but new expensive hardware will be required for WAAS and additional hardware for ADS-B.  Only Mooney can fix the problem, since the airplanes were certified by Mooney with this product.

[Danb]

Jet lag I would believe it you desire to use your plane as a strong long range aircraft, I believe Mooney marketed it as a personal airliner ..and it is close to that you would regret not considering a plane with Monroy L R tanks..it was stated above you never know how much fuel you have in the lR tanks..disagree..I always know how much fuel I have in mine and the amount on each side...I feel it is my responsibility to know ....there are to many fuel starvation crashes of which there should be none...once you turn the key in your planes ignition you have taken that responsibility..so unless your cavalier in your attitude of safety I'm sure you would also know of the fuel in relative to your flight...my wife and I weight about 275 lbs, 600 lbs fuel and 50 lbs of bags has us about 70 lbs. under gross.. I take used to take quite a few Long trips alone and it was quite nice not landing for 6 hours particularly of going over weather..that's why theres vanilla and chocolate one has the choice..good luck in your efforts..

[Tony Armour]

$30,000 ? Are ya'll including reserves ? Mines not even close to that.....much lower.

Tim's airplane sounds very nice.

[gjkirsch]

No reserves.  Hanger 6K, Insurance 2.4, Fuel 12K, 4 oil changes 1K, average annual 4K, Charts 1K, Misc Maintenance 3K (something electrical seems to break every year) 28K.  If I think harder I may cry!  In the last 2 years a new oxygen tank, an artificial horizon (twice), exhaust work, and 2 TKS strips. 

[Awful_Charlie]

Similar to Don and GJ - a bit less on the hangar, marginally more on the insurance, less for the oil change (I do my own), less for the annual, but more on maintenance (some of which might be done at the same time as the annual). With ship/ELT/Aspen/Lifesaver batteries there is an annual cost there, couple of hundred on oxygen and equipment, Radio, ELT and altimeter checks, Liferaft & lifejacket servicing are not strictly to do with the aircraft, but part of my annual expense. There are also things like avionics and paint to consider, which should last a long time, but quite eye-watering when they come in

[Tony Armour]

We have to count hanger and insurance ? Damn ! :-)

[Tony Armour]

Awful_Charlie......why do you eat flies ? ;-)

[aviatoreb]

Awful_Charlie......why do you eat flies ? ;-)

 

I had dinner with Awful once - I didn't see any flies.

[Awful_Charlie]

Good memory Erik - and I seem to recall you paid too! I'll have to get over and return the favour sometime (Maybe Osh 2015 if I can get the time and the money to meet at the same time)

[aviatoreb]

Good memory Erik - and I seem to recall you paid too! I'll have to get over and return the favour sometime (Maybe Osh 2015 if I can get the time and the money to meet at the same time)

 

It sure was!!!

 

Did I pay?  I'm glad - it's the least I coulda done.

 

I've never been to Oshkosh - but now you are officially the third person telling me I must go to 2015.  Wow - I'm not sure I can defer anymore!  Would you fly Swiss Air or the Bravo?

[rbp]

My 1998 Bravo will be going on sale in the spring. contact me for details.

[rbp]

I posted details here: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/14400-1998-mooney-m20m-for-sale/