Auctioned Mooney at Oshkosh

[Andy95W]

I'd rather crash and burn than fly around with a parasol or training wheels or whatever you might call that thing. Orville and Wilbur lie embarrassed in their graves. 

After talking with their sales people at OSH, my wife had an interesting insight about Cirrus people: she said they're like the Justin Bieber of General Aviation. A punk kid who thinks alot of himself but everyone else wishes would just shut up.

[Bob_Belville]

After talking with their sales people at OSH, my wife had an interesting insight about Cirrus people: she said they're like the Justin Bieber of General Aviation. A punk kid who thinks alot of himself but everyone else wishes would just shut up.

Probably appeal to the same folks who are drawn to plug-in autos, corn gasoline, and quiche. And round ball futball.

 

Come to think of it, that might be a pretty large market.

[scottfromiowa]

Page 2 ='s B.S.

What a bunch of weird replies...

[DS1980]

Yea, I don't understand the "don't want a parachute" crowd. Maybe folks that fly east of the Rockies. Although not an alternate for good flight planning, I would take a chute here any day!

[aaronk25]

I'd take one too....if the repackage was more affordable....nice thing about a chute is I have the option or not of pulling it.....there is several instances I can think of where I would not pull it....but low IFR.....I'm yanking the cord...weeeee

[carusoam]

Darin,

you make a good point. The Rockies would make a horrible location for E-landings...

The Garden State has many fields to select from, in comparison...

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

I'm just curious what type of pompass idiot wouldn't want another option to survive for himself , his wife , or his 12 year old daughter in the back..... OK idiots , what happens if you are at 3000 feet and your prop throws a blade , and the engine rips off of the mount....What happens if flutter takes off your tail.......What happens if a goose goes through your windshield at two hundred miles an hour and incapacitates you ,  I guess since you cant save the day you passengers deserve to die.....  Do you guys even read your posts????? I know your the best Pilot and would never screw up because your so great....... But I have screwed up , and could do it again...... The Parachute saves lives its a great option.......

[DonMuncy]

I absolutely agree with you that in some instances, a parachute could save you. However, one must ask; at what cost. The cost of redesigning a plane, the chute assembly itself, the periodic repacking and loss of useful load has to be factored in.

I'm sure some will say that "safety at any cost" is necessary. I would point out that simply not flying is far safer than flight with of without a parachute.

It boils down to ones personal decision. I don't disparage those who opt for a parachute, but everyone has to make their own decision.

[bonal]

So piper can sell a new Arrow with a 200hp IO360 for over 200,000 less yes it's a bit slower but I'm sure it has all the same bits like a motor wings and such. I hope Mooney finds success just as I am hopeful for all G.A. Once it's gone it's gone for good. I'm sure the Piper fans like the Beech fans like the Cessna fans all share the same spirit for their chosen brands as we have for our Mooney's and I am really excited for the folks there in Texas.

[Bob_Belville]

I'm just curious what type of pompass idiot wouldn't want another option to survive for himself , his wife , or his 12 year old daughter in the back..... OK idiots , what happens if you are at 3000 feet and your prop throws a blade , and the engine rips off of the mount....What happens if flutter takes off your tail.......What happens if a goose goes through your windshield at two hundred miles an hour and incapacitates you ,  I guess since you cant save the day you passengers deserve to die.....  Do you guys even read your posts????? I know your the best Pilot and would never screw up because your so great....... But I have screwed up , and could do it again...... The Parachute saves lives its a great option.......

Your language strikes me as a little rash for someone flying an M20E. If it is like mine, it has only one engine. Compromising ultimate safety seems to have its limits. A lot more planes have engine failure than have the million to one(?) events you are so worked up about.

[bnicolette]

The Parachute saves lives its a great option.......

 

Right on!  And because of that folks plunk down the cost of admission.

[DaV8or]

Your language strikes me as a little rash for someone flying an M20E. If it is like mine, it has only one engine. Compromising ultimate safety seems to have its limits. A lot more planes have engine failure than have the million to one(?) events you are so worked up about.

 

At some point you have to put away the spread sheets and the accounting cap and put on your marketing cap. Last time Mooney went head to head with Cirrus it lost big time. Cirrus sold about 6 to 1. If you think it might be because of slick carbon fiber, modern design, glass panels and fixed gear, remember that Cirrus soundly kicked Columbia/Cessna's ass too. Maybe there is something to this parachute thing.

 

The parachute and a diesel engine are the only logical short term modifications possible for the M20 airframe and key to it's continuance.

[Marauder]

I got to see a Cirrus 22 Gen 5 (I think) up close the day Bob came to visit. It was being flown by a charter service out of Philly and picking up a passenger at my airport. I really liked the looks and the pilot went through the appointments it had. Mooney has some work ahead of it...

[Alan Fox]

As Bob stated , "a lot more planes have engine failures than the million to one events you stated"   yes Bob and a significant number of them die.....  The chute is not the answer for all circumstances , but it is the only answer for many......

[Bob_Belville]

<snip> The chute is not the answer for all circumstances , but it is the only answer for many......

Beating a dead horse but I would question the "many". My instinct is that it would not have helped in the vast majority of GA accidents. I suppose that for approximately the cost of a parachute a owner/pilot could acquire an IR which would be far more useful long term in saving his/her neck.

 

Are there stats on how many times chutes have been pulled and what was the reason the pilot had to pull it?

[1964-M20E]

I have no idea what the stats are for chutes saving the pilot but it is just like Congress passing a new law it feels good even though it will in most cases have no effect. 

 

However, it helps them sell planes then by all means add it.

[aviatoreb]

Beating a dead horse but I would question the "many". My instinct is that it would not have helped in the vast majority of GA accidents. I suppose that for approximately the cost of a parachute a owner/pilot could acquire an IR which would be far more useful long term in saving his/her neck.

 

Are there stats on how many times chutes have been pulled and what was the reason the pilot had to pull it?

 

Putting aside the aeronautical/safety discussions regarding parachutes - let's forget for a minute about who is a good pilot, what good training will do for us, and so forth - let's just talk business - it is my opinion that the marketing business aspect of a parachute are clear.  Parachutes sell airplanes.  Cirrus proved that.  If Mooney wants to sell more airplanes then a parachute is a single relatively minor change that I think would have a massive change in their sales bottom line.

[aaronk25]

I think the number was all but 2 who pulled the chute lived. One was going way above the airspeed in which the chute can be deployed and the other was really low...if memory serves.

The argument that the chute is a success can not be broken.

[Alan Fox]

59 deployments , 46 saves , 95 survivors , 1 fatality , 13 deployments were not included because of deployment outside of envelope...of the 13,14 fatalities , 6 survived , The deployments not considered were deployments caused by impact , or deployments too late in the game (IE base to final turn ) Iced up spin exceeding 300 kts ,  There have been saves as low as 528 feet agl ,    Interestingly enough there was a deployment failure , that spurred an AD in 07 the plane landed in trees and both survived but had serious injuries... 

[chrisk]

Two fatal Mooney accidents occurred recently and appear to have been related to a power problems on take off.    If I were in one of those planes, I would have been praying for a chute.  --And yes, I know they were low, but its got to slow you down..... 

 

If I could retro fit one in my plane at a reasonable price ($5000), I would, even though it would take 80 lbs of useful load.  However the retrofit systems for Cessna 182s are 20K+.  Anyway, Mooney should clearly understand that a chute makes the non-pilot feel much safer, and even makes many pilots feel safer.  Especially in the dark over rough terrain.

[DaV8or]

Two fatal Mooney accidents occurred recently and appear to have been related to a power problems on take off.    If I were in one of those planes, I would have been praying for a chute.  --And yes, I know they were low, but its got to slow you down..... 

 

If I could retro fit one in my plane at a reasonable price ($5000), I would, even though it would take 80 lbs of useful load.  However the retrofit systems for Cessna 182s are 20K+.  Anyway, Mooney should clearly understand that a chute makes the non-pilot feel much safer, and even makes many pilots feel safer.  Especially in the dark over rough terrain.

 

In both those cases I would have been praying much more for the seat belt airbags. They would have been far more useful. I believe that new Mooneys should come standard with both. I'm not sure if Cirrus has airbags yet or not.

[bonal]

^{Seems to me just put a couple chutes in the plane and bail out if things go bad (cant jump over populated areas but over water and mountains why not) as long as the airplane is flying I dont know if I'd pull the ripcord our try to fly it in to a safe off field landing.}

[thinwing]

interesting enough the one accident of a cirrus over sugar bowl calif that haunts me...the pilot flys into weather at night..gets some icing ( it had tks) and instead of continuing downhill to warmer temps of the valley...gets scared and deploys the parachute without slowing it down...the results were that the sudden opening shock destroyed the aircraft .....he would have been better to embrace his fear,and continued to fly the aircraft...