Mooney questions and interest

[golfpilot]

I am currently in a club and am finding myself taking southwest or driving because I can't get the scheduling/ flexibility I need. I am slowly starting to come to the conclusion I need to quit being cheap and get my own plane. I'm not a fan of burning gas for some weird describable reason and I prefer to fly places because it is faster. The Mooney seems to fit on paper. 

 

I'm here to get opinions from actual Mooney pilots.

 

I don't want to let go of more than 150k cash upfront and don't want to go over 3-4k a month. 

A hangar will run me 500 a month. And I project I'll be flying 150 hours a year with my own ride. 

 

Majority of my flights are from the bay area to Fresno, Bakersfield, or LA

 

I'd really like a turbo but a bug inside me says don't.

 

Am I out to lunch with these numbers or am I in the ballpark? 

 

I have rented bonanzas in the past and really liked them but I fly 95% of my flights with 1 or less passengers and like I said I'm not a huge fan of burning gas. 

 

 

 

Any opinions remarks or criticism for me? thanks

 

 

[carusoam]

Get over your fear?

Burning gas is part of the process.

Even a glider gets launched using old dinosaur technology.

When you get over this fear, you don't have to hang out at a Prius party. But if you do, you can tell them you fly in one of the most efficient planes...

Let's face it. 150 hours per year is minimal compared to your 500 hours you probably do commuting to work. 2 hrs per day, 52 weeks a year...

If you want to offset your guilty feelings, support a charity or invest in solar power companies?

Were you looking for sympathy, or were you taking on a west coast charm?

Homework assignment:

Define your mission, select the plane that matches 90% of that! then lets continue...

How do you feel about flying the world's fastest four seat, N/A, factory built, single engine aircraft?

The Mooney is a nice combination of speed and efficiency.

It can be flown at Carson's speed to improve the efficiency. But, logic will usually prevail over feelings.

As side from that, welcome aboard...

-a-

[smccray]

With that budget and that plan you should be just fine with just about any 4 place airplane that can be purchased for under $150K.  If you're looking at a Mooney, your mission screams J model.   You could go with an Ovation or an Eagle, but purchase price is going to be at the top end of your budget, probably a little above.  Block to block time isn't going to be much longer in the J and it will be cheaper to own with an IO360.  I chose the J model as my first plane because the systems are simple for a complex plane and it's very efficient.  

 

My J is coming to market soon, but I'd bet you can find a plane that's a little closer to home.

[carusoam]

Scott went with advice...

I went with criticism...

Anyone else have remarks or opinions?

Go O!

-a-

[Bartman]

J

[KSMooniac]

J model will fit your needs and budget very easily. K model (turbo) would as well if you really want the turbo. A turbo would be nice if you want to fly east over the mountains often.

An E or F model would work fine as well on a lower acquisition budget.

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[1964-M20E]

AS above define your mission.

1. where you want to go
2. where you need to go
3. how fast you want to get there
4. how many people will you normally carry
5. how many people in your immediate family wife, kids
6. in your case since you are on the west coast will you be going east often
7. the list goes on but you get the point

After you have defined the airframe or airframes that meet your needs.

 

Then define what you want in the plane as far as avionics go GPS, auto pilot etc and then look for the best mechanical plane with most of the electronics you want in your budget.

 

my $0.02

[scottfromiowa]

Since I am spending your money. Get a 252. The performance is spectacular, as is the appearance...and the price for entry has not been this low in a LONG TIME. Plane will be better equipped (oxygen/etc.) and with only flying two you can put enough gas for a long mission of fun over the mountains to Vegas, Lake Tahoe etc...

Enjoy...and don't mind Caruso...we take turns being grumpy

[carusoam]

Must be late on the East coast.

My meds are wearing thin...

-a-

[canuckpilot]

Totally biased... but I feel the bay area and my E are a good fit.  Your budget allows for a lot more airplane, but not sure your mission requirements warrant it.

 

I'm based at Hayward (KHWD) - I'd gladly answer any questions.

 

Cheers,

 

-matty.

[golfpilot]

I step away from the computer for a couple hours and I get a large amount of replies! Even the criticism! Thanks

 

Never have been an aircraft owner I like hearing my budget doesn't sound impossible. 

 

As far as the Prius comment goes... I Plug my Car in every night and call Prius drivers "Gas Guzzlers", no Prius party for me.

 

I don't think I would fly over the mountains east often, I dream about flying to Vegas Phoenix and Albuquerque in my own plane but I think that a little out of my league right now and it really wouldn't save time over a southwest flight. 

 

Bay area to LA would be the longest and most demanding flight. Requires a climb to 11k.  Me and sometimes one other person. the third person falls in that last 10%. 

 

Sounds like I need to start looking at planes and grow a pair when the right one comes around

[cliffy]

With your stated mission profile a J would do fine at a lot less entry and operating cost. Time differential from a J to something with more HP ain't all that much to even worry about with your mission.

With your budget you can get a lot more airplane in a more powerful Mooney but at a higher operating cost. Your choice.

Lots of very good, up to date instrument panel, good autopilot Js are available.

It all depends on how much entry cost you want to accept.

The flexibility of a turbo for going over the High Sierras makes them worthwhile IF you have occasion to do it more often. They also have a somewhat higher entry and operating cost.

Without doubt you need a modern autopilot and a WAAS Approach certified coupled GPS. Glass panels can be found and should be considered. You may have to look around for a while but they are out there.

You are far better off buying one set up the way you want it rather than trying to modify one the way you want. You'll be money way ahead.

As always- YOU NEED TO FIND A GOOD MOONEY SHOP FOR A PREBUY. Preferably an Mooney Service Center (you have a good one nearby in Stockton with Top Gun).

Lots of help here but having your own Mooney expert to help you pick a good one is invaluable. Much of the sifting out of the chaff can be done online or buy snail mail long before you decide to go look at one.

If you have never bought an airplane before you need to educate yourself before you look. Never buy the first airplane you look at! There will always be another maybe better one around. It's not like buying a car. It's very much like buying an RV motor home- trust no one selling an airplane-verify everything! Get a title search done period! EVERY airplane. no matter how well maintained (or professed to be) has some issues. It's your job to find them.

A low time/not flown much airplane is not necessarily a bargain!

Part of the fun of owning your first plane is finding the right one. Enjoy the search, ask good questions and stay in touch here and many will help you.

You might consider hiring a buyers agent/broker that knows the market and airplanes. Most jets are bought with the help of buyers agents. Too much to lose if things are missed. Same with Mooneys from Js up. You will save their cost easily by them finding a good one for you. I've known one for over 30 years and he is as honest as the day is long and I have no financial interest with him. I dealt with him on the purchase of a Citation and know how valuable he was (he may not work on small a/c anymore like he did years ago). It's just another option to save yourself some grief on making mistakes.

Good luck you are on the correct path.

[Bob - S50]

I second the motion that a J should work.  To answer your questions, here is some ballpark estimates based on our partnership that is about 18 months old.

 

You should be able to find a nicely equipped J for under $120k let alone $155k.

 

Our J costs us about $800 - $1000/month in fixed costs.

 

We set aside $25/hour for time based maintenance.

 

Assuming 100LL is about $6/gallon, that's about $80/hour plus fixed costs.

 

Bob

[golfpilot]

Thanks Cliffy. 

 

I'm known by my friends as a cheapa**. Thats my budget right now but when I get to it, I'll probably get something cheaper like a c/e/. Both seem to fit my profile really well. I'm making LA trips in a 182RG or a straight leg 182 right now and the 150-160knot speed is pleasing. An extra 20 knots wont save a whole lot of time on that trip.

 

Your right about getting one equipped the way you want, and low/time not flown much not being a good thing..Along with everything else, great advice. 

 

If I end up deciding Mooney, which unless I decide suddenly I really don't like them  , I think I'd go up to Lampson field. Apparently that is where the LASAR mods creater is or something. I take my club's planes up there every so often and they've got a ton of Mooneys. 

 

I'm sure I'll be looking around for a while to find the perfect one. 

 

Bob. Thanks for the cost breakdown. I was running it in my head awefully close to that. I was thinking $850 +$90per hour goes into the account each month. Its encouraging to know my numbers are reasonably close.

[Jeff_S]

Mooney J is your bird. I've got one for you!  Check it out: http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1329640&pcid=1300876

[ToddDPT]

The J sounds like a good bet.  I'm in Visalia and we go to Vegas a few times a year and my wife's family live in Albuquerque and we fly there once a year.  The J is fine for this mission.  So you don't go directly over the mountains and you fly a little south through the Trona pass or all the way around and it adds 15 to 30 minutes to your flight.  Who cares...you're flying and you love it.  The J sounds like a great fit.

[Randy_B]

Golfpilot,

 

I would also say a "J" model like mine (unsolicited plug) would fit your needs.  Like you, I was looking for a fast, efficient, and sexy looking plane for my 2-3 hour missions.  Most of my flying has been between the Seattle area and Boise at 9,500 to 10,500.  That is an 8+ hour drive that turns into a 2-1/2 hour flight. My missions don't look to be that much different from yours and the J fit perfectly.  In the interest of full disclosure, I did recently post my plane in the for sale forum.

Good luck in your search,

Randy 

[wishboneash]

I plug in my car daily as well and the M20J was the most efficient plane that I could find that game with a gasoline engine! I am out of Livermore and fly to Camarillo from time to time. The flight takes 1hr 40m with more terrain along the way than you will encounter on your way to Fresno/Bakersfield. The central valley is at sea level for practical purposes so a turbo is a waste if this your primary mission. The J would be ideal unless you planned to cross the Sierras more often. I can try to answer any questions you may have.

[drake15d]

I have a J and I concur with the operating costs at abouot $80/hr (includes maintenance reserve). I mostly fly by myself on 2 hour trips max, she makes me even more confident in IFR, and it does pretty good at 11,500' as well. I fly off a $1,500 a month budget. You'll be perfect

[rbridges]

heck with your budget.  get an acclaim, and tell us how flying <200 knots is lame.  

[ArtVandelay]

The first year can be more expensive, due to upgrades, service items that have been deferred. Have some extra money set aside for it.

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[Joe Zuffoletto]

Bay area to LA would be the longest and most demanding flight. Requires a climb to 11k.  Me and sometimes one other person. the third person falls in that last 10%.

I used to make that flight all the time in my K model. It can be done at 9500' going down and 8500' going back if you go GPS direct to VNY and the winds aren't too high around Gorman.

[Tom]

I'd suggest a RV-9.  Almost J speeds, probably faster than some Js.  Depending on the engine better MPG than a Mooney.  Much slower touch-down speed should you lose the engine.  Ceiling as good or better than a J.  Easily find one with a full glass panel with WAAS coupled autopilot to fly approaches for under $100k.  Ability to use autogas if/when the ethanol mandate ends and mogas where you can find it.  Maintenance expense (sans engine) almost free compared to a certified plane.  Rent when you need the third/fourth seats.

[Cruiser]

Don't torture yourself. It is proven the M20J is the best all around performance/efficient certified plane for your purpose. You will not be disappointed.

 

Just buy this one and be done with it. You will not regret the move to a J model.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/12414-for-sale-1979-201-trophey-212/

[bonal]

Seems like lots of folks telling how great the J is as they are trying to sell their J's.  not sure why every one is worried about the Sierras i flew them in my stupid (but fun) C150 hope you find what your looking for. Lake aero styling at Lampson is a good choice for pre buys also Top Gun in Stockton.

good luck to you!

and dont get me wrong I would love to afford a J