Dripping oil after oil change

[ncdmtb]

I wanted to share my frustration and hear how other (experienced) Mooney pilots would have dealt with the situation.

This week my M20E got an oil change. Decided to do it at Beechcraft Augsburg (highly professional service org in Augsburg, Germany); they service King Airs, Hawker jets, Bonanzas, Cirrus and other GA aircraft. They are really quite pricey - oil change about $700 (keep in mind this overpriced Europe!!) I wanted to fly the plane to Rieger Pilotenservice, they are REALLY good - but I wasn't able to take a time off during the week to fly the plane over.

Anyway, they did the oil change and put the plane back in the hangar.

Yesterday, early evening I decided to go flying. I wanted to do an IFR training flight in easy IMC and fly a hold, On my way to the airport I felt a little uneasy about flying. No idea why, but I was a little "scared". I have only 75hrs in my Mooney since beginning of last year. I ended up deciding to do a short VFR flight (weather was not great, rain coming through, bases at 4000) and give my new Garmin Virb a try, I only flew about 40min, When I put the plane back in the hangar I noticed a large oil spot (approx size 2 footprints). I was surprised I did not notice it during preflight (=will not happen again!!).

Today I decided to do the IFR training flight. I was really looking forward to the flight and did not feel one bit uneasy today. When I got the the hangar I noticed a new oil spot in similar size. I was somewhat concerned. My plane shares the hangar with two C172 from a flying club; a flight instructor was just returning from a lesson with a student and asked if I want to pull out my Mooney before he brought his plane into the hangar. I told him I was concerned about an oil drip and am uncertain to fly. I have had the plane a little over a year and never have had such an issue (this was my third oil change since ownership). He said he would fly - planes can drip oil; I should not be concerned. I decided to find out what the issue is, before I get into the plane and fly.

I was able to reach the mechanic who did the work. He came out to the airport. We took off the cowling and the drain on the pilot side (see picture) was dripping oil (ever so slowly, you could see a drop hanging, but you it did not drop in a noticable frequency) directly onto one exhaust pipe. He had mentioned, that when he changed the oil, he tried to open that drain, but it was clogged. So he decided to drain the oil from the co-pilot side (no quick release, a secured bolt). He was extremely apologetic and told me in his opinion it was not safe to fly since the dripping oil could cause fire.

So here are my questions:

Was I overly cautious?

Have others had an intuition of "fear" (like I did yesterday) and decide not to fly?

What could the issue be? Old O-ring that broke when he tried to remove it, but ended up putting it back again?

Is this something that happens, or was this a result of negligence/poor workmanship?

I am looking forward to what this knowledgable group has to share on this topic.

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[scottfromiowa]

You asked for opinion...so here it is: You did not discuss oil level at the dipstick. What was it? What was the cause for the leak? I change my own oil. I have a quick drain. I only add six quarts. If quick drain is closed and dipstick is snug, I am good. If I had a puddle of oil and I am down a quart I want to know where this aggressive leak is.

My horror was NOT in dthe apparent trickle of oil, but in a $700 oil change. Good God man. I wish I made your money as I could NOT pay $700 for someone to put $30 worth of new oil in my plane. It takes me a minute to remove the lower cowl. Another minute to hook a hose to the quick drain and feed to a plastic bucket/open the drain...Another minute to remove hose/close drain. Three minutes to add oil...

The world is crazy...and I believe your reaction is also over the top on this. My opinion only...You did ask...

[Mooneymite]

 He had mentioned, that when he changed the oil, he tried to open that drain, but it was clogged. So he decided to drain the oil from the co-pilot side (no quick release, a secured bolt). 

 

This was about the only thing that caught my attention.

 

What was it clogged with (!!!)?

 

It isn't too unusual to have residual oil from an oil change.  Often, if a mechanic doesn't know about "the trick" when changing the filter, there can be oil that pools near the nose gear and continues to drip for a flight, or two.  However, the oil level will tell you if the oil spot is from "residual oil", or if it's coming out of the engine.

 

If the oil level stays the same, you're probably good to go, but it just makes sense to mop up the residual oil for a variety of reasons.

[ncdmtb]

Thanks Scott. The oil after that change was at about 6,5 quarts. Not much oil dripped out, the size of two of the stains you see in the picture.

Flying in Europe, in particularly Germany is very expensive. They even charge for IFR routings and we have landing fees here. And if you land a night, you need to pay extra for the runway lights. How much I do miss flying back home in the states...

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[ncdmtb]

Hi Mooneymite,

He mentioned that it was clogged with "crud" and did not drain. Keep in mind, it is an "aged airplane" ;-)

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[Cruiser]

What you had was apprehension because an unknown mechanic of questionable ability was working on your plane.

 

Why would this drain be plugged? And why if it is plugged would the mechanic not inform you? What is it plugged with?

Most likely, the mechanic in trying to open the drain caused the plug to leak.

Obviously, it needs to be removed and cleaned. The contaminates should be analyzed to determine the source.

 

Was this drain used during the last oil change or has it been a problem from long ago?

[Danb]

Your question re. Intuition of 'fear' and would that influence me concerning taking on a flight...Yes. Why I don't have a clue why, but if I had that felling I would feel in could seep into my decision making, I assume there should always be a suspect of not fear but mutual respect for the task or challenge of flight. It should not be taken lightly everything should be analyzed during our preflight of ourselves

some would call it professionalism. I'm not sure of the name of it but it should enter into our process of determining if flight is right at that particular time.....

[carusoam]

A few things...

(1) I don't recognize the plumbing in the photo. Could be added after market. Returning to original design would be my recommendation. For 700USD, they won't need a quick drain.

(2) I always have fear. The checklist alleviates that fear.

(3) "all engines leak oil" is not normal practice for Mooneys. Every drip that comes out of the engine has a source that can be identified and fixed. At least know the source and why it is leaking. You want to know (not feel) that it won't become significant in the next flight.

There are many seals and lines that age or come loose. Change the seal or tighten the fitting. Cracks in the block are a bit more challenging.

That's my M20C experience...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bravoman]

Thanks Scott. The oil after that change was at about 6,5 quarts. Not much oil dripped out, the size of two of the stains you see in the picture.Flying in Europe, in particularly Germany is very expensive. They even charge for IFR routings and we have landing fees here. And if you land a night, you need to pay extra for the runway lights. How much I do miss flying back home in the states...Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My uncle used to like to say that the last time he flew in Germany was in a B-17, and he didn't land...

[scottfromiowa]

I just flat disagree with "FEAR" in association with flying General Aviation aircraft.

Respect...

Comfort...

The unknown or lack of experience might create anxiety...and hopefully cause additional assessment, calculation and comfort from knowing "it's alright"/I am alright/competent/mission ready.

I don't disagree with your decision NOT to fly until the cause was known and repairs/correction undertaken....But FEAR? NOPE.

Not like someone was going to be shooting at you, had a gun to your head forcing you to make the flight. If I had FEAR I would NOT be flying.

I don't use the words FEAR or HATE lightly. LOVE, that is a word to use too much.

[ncdmtb]

Maybe "Fear" is not the right word, maybe I should have chosen "uncomfortable" ;-)

But in essence I did not feel like I wanted to head into IMC yesterday.

By the way - 6 quarts are also not to be had for $30 here, it's more like $140

-Nick

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[MB65E]

Those larger old school quick drains have a lot of surface area at the seating portion. If it's gummed up it can be impossible to get it to open. Best thing to do would be to remove it and clean it up. I cleaned ours up and used some fuel lube on the oring to get it to seal nicely.

Caution...when removing the quick drain With out a toarch/heat on the threads when removing, it will gall or strip.

Still not sure where that much oil came from, filter run off I'm guessing.

Guess we still have it pretty good here in the states price wise!

-Matt

[carusoam]

I would have fear of $140 being spread across my floor on top of the discomfort caused by an unknown oil leak...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

I just flat disagree with "FEAR" in association with flying General Aviation aircraft.

 

 

Obviously, there are different levels/types of "fear".

 

However, I think that healthy fear is a necessary component of aviation safety.  One of my nephews once asked me how long it took to get over fear of flight.  I told him that after 46 years of flying, I'm still fearful.  Everytime I do a walkaround inspection, I ask myself, "How is this thing going to try to kill me today?".

 

Is that fear?

[mooniac15u]

Postponing a flight because something doesn't look right or feel right is a good way to stay alive.

[FlyDave]

I was able to reach the mechanic who did the work. He came out to the airport. We took off the cowling and the drain on the pilot side (see picture) was dripping oil (ever so slowly, you could see a drop hanging, but you it did not drop in a noticable frequency) directly onto one exhaust pipe. He had mentioned, that when he changed the oil, he tried to open that drain, but it was clogged. So he decided to drain the oil from the co-pilot side (no quick release, a secured bolt). He was extremely apologetic and told me in his opinion it was not safe to fly since the dripping oil could cause fire.

 

Wow - he actually said this to you? I'd go to his boss and file a complaint. How can he return an airplane to an owner when he believes there is an issue with potential to cause a fire?

[ncdmtb]

At minimum the oil change will not cost me anything. Maybe I will even get a "plane wash" out of this. Since the oil leaked out of the cowling and drew an airfoil shaped streak along the pilot side of the fuselage. Not a big streak, since the oil dripped out extremely slowly, but the again I just flew 30min. Week after next I am planning to fly to Dublin, so I am glad I caught this before I head out across the Irish Sea!

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[scottfromiowa]

It's semantics...I guess.

Words are powerful...or not.

Fly safe

[aaronk25]

Fear? Not sure increased anxiety, sure. Last night we flew from MN to Denver centennial airport and landed at about 10pm.. Would prefer to do flights during the day, but still fly some at night, it's just the way out schedules work. So back to the fear thing.....sure I'm more alert because I know it will be harder to make a safe landing if the prop stops vs day but fear isn't the word....just more alert.

[Mooneymite]

I fear thread creep is creeping up on us!  

[aaronk25]

What else would you guys do if we didn't keep it interesting?

[larryb]

My IO360 quick drain drips a bit. I may have a 3" diameter spot after a few days. I'm not sure how many drops it takes to get a 3" spot. I've cleaned it up and checked it, and it seems that it may be seeping at the threads where the elbow screws into the oil pan. I see no evidence of any sealer on those threads. I'm not sure if they should have any sealer or not? I haven't gotten around to asking my mechanic about this.

[Marauder]

What else would you guys do if we didn't keep it interesting?

I fear to think about that...

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[bonal]

I don't think its fear that we might be feeling but the awareness and adrenalin that flows. A healthy respect for something that challenges us and our abilities. I'd be more worried if I did not have a little knot in my tummy as I'm getting ready to fly. I used to feel the same way just before the start of a race or at the top of a cornice. As for a problem with an airplane that's logic or just plain common sense weather or not to fly. If I saw a big oil spot on the floor after a service I would get it fixed first. Sadly there are too many cases when bad choices end up tragically.

[scottfromiowa]

Obviously, there are different levels/types of "fear".

 

However, I think that healthy fear is a necessary component of aviation safety.  One of my nephews once asked me how long it took to get over fear of flight.  I told him that after 46 years of flying, I'm still fearful.  Everytime I do a walkaround inspection, I ask myself, "How is this thing going to try to kill me today?".

 

Is that fear?

Not to me...