2 Porsche Mooneys for sale on Controller as a package deal for $60k

[triple8s]

So, if I understand .....it would be easier to apply for a " new " STC to put on a different kind of power plant ? Or the 550 route is "impossible "? Unless of course one could be bought from the Mod Works people who are out of business. Right?

[jetdriven]

We ran into this situation with another Modworks STC, the fiberglass gear doors. We called the FSDO and adked them about putting them on. They asked for approved data. We sent them the Modworks data. They told us to buy the STC. However the STC was not available. The registered phone number of the STC holder was a hotel in Alabama. So not possible. However, I found a set of the fiberglass gear doors in the box with the STC papers at a swap meet.  But otherwise, you cannot install it. You could get a field approval for a IO-something but not the one in the Ovation. Perhaps an IO-780 with some "blowers and stuff".

[triple8s]

You'd think the govt would make an stc holder register it every so many years and if not registered ten it could be picked up by another company or entity so as to not cod lock things up so, he'll they'd even get a little revenue the govt so badly needs ( yeah right)

[carusoam]

Similarly, the Acclaim's TN IO-550(g) is not available on an R. The R was born with the same IO-550(g), turning 2500rpm.

The difference is the funky A on the tail, exhaust piping, and a pair of snails, and of course, 280 hp at altitude...!

What you want, is all that and have the engine turn 2700 rpm. 310hp on the ground and (theoretically) at altitude as well.

So, if you're going to pay gobs of dough creating an engine STC, consider the power used by other well known alternatives. Acclaim and SR22 both use it. No water piping required...

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

The original M20L has 60 gallons fuel tanks. When adding the 300HP engine you need to add long range tanks (96 gallons total) to have a reasonable range.

 

José

[jetdriven]

with a 600lb useful load, its hard to justify adding fuel capacity.

[DaV8or]

Just thinking about it........they can go to the ice cap on Greenland, dig through more than 250 ft of ice, dismantle a crushed 60 year old P-38, winch it through a small hole piece by piece to the ice surface, haul it miles and miles across a glacier. Load it piece by piece on a truck, ship, then truck again. Haul everything to a hangar in Middlesboro Ky. Reconstruct/rebuild it, fly it across the US then fly it to England, and 20 years later with all our technology and increased computers and machining processes we can't even put a 550 TCM on an airframe that later came out with one at the factory. ( yes I know the gear is beefed up on the O,s and Bravo and acclaim I got that) this ain't nuclear physics, oh wait......it's dealing with the government.

 

Oh you can rebuild these M20Ls in exactly the same way as the P-38. You can put any motor you want on it. A Corvette engine if you don't like Porsche. Maybe even an Allison engine like the P-38. You just have to have a DER sign off on the engineering, then the airplane will get an airworthiness certificate exactly like the P-38 has. Experiment exhibition. Look it up. You won't like the restrictions they have on that P-38.

 

Here in California, we see warbirds like the P-51 and T-6 all the time. Many others too including the P-38. We look at them and think that those owners are free to fly around like we are, but that's wrong. Legally, those warbirds have a lot of restrictions on them that most here would find to be big deal breakers. Do the owners cheat? Probably, but can you afford it when the insurance company refuses to pay, or when the feds eventually track you down?

[DaV8or]

Here's an idea, rebuild those M20Ls with the original Porsche motors on them. Sure, Porsche no longer supports the motor so there are no OEM parts available, but you could make all your own parts needed for the engine rebuild under the owner produced parts provision. A lot of work and expense, but it could be done. You would end up with a rare Mooney with mediocre performance, powered by a real genuine Porsche engine. Think of the prestige! Maybe Stuttgart would be so moved, they would send you an honorary white lab coat with monogram! 

[aviatoreb]

You'd think the govt would make an stc holder register it every so many years and if not registered ten it could be picked up by another company or entity so as to not cod lock things up so, he'll they'd even get a little revenue the govt so badly needs ( yeah right)

 

That is a good point.  Don't copyrights expire eventually?  This is an example of why STC's should perhaps not exist in perpetuity without at least a required renewal process.

[aviatoreb]

We ran into this situation with another Modworks STC, the fiberglass gear doors. We called the FSDO and adked them about putting them on. They asked for approved data. We sent them the Modworks data. They told us to buy the STC. However the STC was not available. The registered phone number of the STC holder was a hotel in Alabama. So not possible. However, I found a set of the fiberglass gear doors in the box with the STC papers at a swap meet.  But otherwise, you cannot install it. You could get a field approval for a IO-something but not the one in the Ovation. Perhaps an IO-780 with some "blowers and stuff".

 

Wow - good for you - what a lucky find those doors.

[Marauder]

Think of the prestige! Maybe Stuttgart would be so moved, they would send you an honorary white lab coat with monogram!

It will be a white coat alright, with the zipper on the back and your arms wrapped around you.

[aviatoreb]

Sounds like the cheapest (still expensive) route would rebuild the Porche engine.  Nicest likely (but not so likely) option would be to beg and plead Rocket Engineering to renew and apply their liquid rocket conversion STC if they are even still allowed and willing.  Most expensive option is to buy these birds for $30k each and then spend $5M to develop from scratch a one off independent STC for whatever engine your heart desires.

 

Probably makes more sense to buy an Ovation for $200k.

[aviatoreb]

... real genuine Porsche engine. Think of the prestige! Maybe Stuttgart would be so moved, they would send you an honorary white lab coat with monogram! 

 

Last week I was just driving through Stuttgart on the autobahn between Frankfurt and the Black Forest in a rental Mercedes B-class diesel (that's a small but nice car).  I spent a lot of time in the middle lane at 100-110mph, and even still I did get past by several Porche, larger Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc at what must have been at least 150mph and up.  Those German's sure make nice cars and they sure have heavy right feet.  Wow.

 

Its a shame and hard to believe that they couldn't figure out how to make their engines convert to a good airplane engine.

[Bob]

This is a interesting one!  More to the story for a pair of only 7-9??, non converted M20L models left, to be sold together.  Are they being sold to close out the lawsuit that a couple owners had going with Porsche?  Sell them cheap to settle or prove low value?

 

After Modwerks was destroyed, about 6 years ago, one non converted "L" was for sale with 3 extra engines for $100K.  The guy got them from Tim Coons at Modwerks and was reselling the package.  Did some research at the time.  The engines came from planes that were destroyed from the storm that were in for conversions at the time, but not returned to Porsche to be destroyed yet.  The plane N911GT was owned by Tim Coons at the time and used as a parts runner.  Well, two of the engines went to Australia for $25K each and the plane was made available with one spare motor for $70K.  The plane sold and then popped up at OSH last year and was crated and shipped out of the US.  Can not find article with details.

 

The two big issues are the 500 hr valve spring replacement and also the lack of parts availability.  Since the engine is a modified Porsche 911 engine, some parts are EZ to have made by the OEM parts manufacturer.  A third issue is finding a A&P that has been trained to overhaul or service that engine.  To my knowledge their is only one person trained by the Porsche Factory and approved to overhaul that engine.  From my personal experience he is very  arrogant & expensive and would love the opportunity for an "open ticket" work order for an overhaul.

 

Going from memory, about 6 years ago there were 11 non converted PFM's, with 9 in the US and 2 in Australia.  One crashed last year in Scottsdale and N911GT was shipped out of the country.  So no more than 7 non converted PFM's exist in the US.  Very sad that the number is just going down to Zero!

 

I also remember one having "experimental" status.  How, I am not sure.

The value in my opinion would be very large if these 2 could be converted to experimental.

 

Has anyone called the seller yet to get some info?  May be interesting.  If anyone has called, please share.

[sreid]

These planes would be a great case for non-commercial owner maintained. That might make these a great deal if you could maintain and modify them under the same rules that you maintain and modify an RV-10.  G900X or G3X, and an IO-550 Ovation configuration firewall forward.

[triple8s]

Wonder if a person get get a FA for a IO-520 or IO-470?

[phecksel]

Thought I heard LASAR might have acquired Modworks STC's... might be worth a phone call if in fact they had an approved engine change

 

As I understood the hurricane issue, Modworks had insurance, but not for the specific type of damage caused by the hurricane.  I drove over to the airport a few months after it was destroyed, and it was mostly leveled.

 

As far as I remember, Coy was not associated with Modworks in FL.  Coy had his own shop.

 

I had some deaings with Tim Coons.  I found him to be a stand up business guy.  He did a most outstanding job painting my C.  It was BEAUTIFUL.  His spring flings, or what he called them were a blast.

[jetdriven]

Mod works is who filled up Randy's wing skin hail damage wih Bondo but charged him for replacing the skins. Stand up guy.....

[Shadrach]

I'd bet that many of the engine parts on this thing that are "no longer available" are off the shelf 911 engine parts of the same era.  If I had money to burn, I'd love to have one.  Best looking Mooney ever built in my opinion!

[fantom]

I flew into Punta Gorda several days after the hurricane with supplies. Mod Works was damaged, but neither it, nor all the planes in the main hanger were destroyed. The paint shop was flattened.

 

When I went back several weeks later the hanger was in no better shape, and most of the planes in and around it had much more serious damage. A month or two later, what Mooneys remained were lined up on a pad, and many had been scavenged with shears, and some were stripped. It was gut wrenching.

 

A friend had his Porsche Mooney there for conversion, he had canceled his insurance at Tim Coons suggestion, and could initially collect zero for his totaled plane. Getting a good lawyer and going after Porsche, and their deep pockets, netted full aircraft value to him.

 

Mod Works did good paint work, had a nice parts department run by Tim's sister, and Tim was/is an interesting guy who had his creative head in the sky, wasn't hands on in the shop, had lots of managers, and trusted others too much. My first annual, on a new plane was done there, and the inspection panel screws paint wasn't even disturbed afterwards.

 

Very strange stuff went on after the hurricane hit Mod Works, and we'll never know the full extent of it. Losing all those STC's to litigation limbo was a crying shame for Mooney owners!

[RJBrown]

Thought I heard LASAR might have acquired Modworks STC's... might be worth a phone call if in fact they had an approved engine change

 

As I understood the hurricane issue, Modworks had insurance, but not for the specific type of damage caused by the hurricane.  I drove over to the airport a few months after it was destroyed, and it was mostly leveled.

 

As far as I remember, Coy was not associated with Modworks in FL.  Coy had his own shop.

 

I had some deaings with Tim Coons.  I found him to be a stand up business guy.  He did a most outstanding job painting my C.  It was BEAUTIFUL.  His spring flings, or what he called them were a blast.

Coy and Tim Coons were partners at some point in Mod Works. Both have shown less than stellar ethics. No first hand knowledge of Coy's misdeeds but the internet is full of them. Tim Coons I have first hand knowledge of. Tim Coons is a crook, he and his company ripped me and my insurance company off. The insurance company approved some wing panel replacements because of hail damage. He fixed them with body filler but took the insurance money without letting me know. Any one with a posative report about either of these twins simply never discovered HOW they were ripped off. Song and Dance, the old shuffle is a business plan for them.

  Any one who lets their hull insurance lapse while in for work gets what they deserve. In this case they lost a plane.

 They both looked at customers in the same light as PTBarnum. Caveat Emptor!!! counts double for these guys.

 If Lasar has been able to aquire the rights to the STCs that would be great for the Mooney community, his reputation has been stellar.

 I said I had no direct knowlegde of Coons misdeeds but I got what I considered a real warning when I called Mooney Mart. After being ripped off by Mod Works I called Mooney Mart and I ended up talking to the same service advisor at Mooney Mart that had ripped me off at Mod Works the year before.

[Bob_Belville]

A very well known MSC owner made this comment on MAPA list this morning: "... there is no way out for these planes. No support, no parts and no stc’s for a conversion available. Even then no useful load. It’s a Bravo airframe on a J model wing with a car motor on the front. A real Pig in my opinion. Ground lover and slower than a J. Please, don’t give them another thought. They could not sell them even by giving a Porsche away free for a year if you bought one.  They should donate to a museum."

[FlyDave]

A very well known MSC owner made this comment on MAPA list this morning: "... there is no way out for these planes. No support, no parts and no stc’s for a conversion available. Even then no useful load. It’s a Bravo airframe on a J model wing with a car motor on the front. A real Pig in my opinion. Ground lover and slower than a J. Please, don’t give them another thought. They could not sell them even by giving a Porsche away free for a year if you bought one.  They should donate to a museum."

 

I think it was George Carlin that said "if you nail two pieces of wood together and call it a Shlamumphie some schmuck will buy it".

This probably applies here as well.......

[jetdriven]

I read in that same email, from Kelly M., that Porsche actually withdrew the engines' Type Certificate. Which means they not even certified engines anymore. What a disaster.

[ArtVandelay]

I notice it doesn't have the normal Throttle-Prop-Mix controls, is this like a car, just turn the key and go? I notice what I think is the throttle control stolen off a DC-9 or something?