Touch and Go Technique

[carusoam]

I saw some discussion coming from another thread and I was interested in the technique you all use for touch and go(s).  Or if you don't TnG, That is interesting also.

My M20C: (Manual trim)

[1] full flaps, trim, power off, Land, 

[2] then flaps up (all of the way),

[3] full power while holding the nose in check and frenetically spinning the trim to remove pressure from the yoke.

I can see how your hands are full trying to maintain vertical control at the same time that the runway is getting short.

 

My M20R: (electric trim)

[1] Have not tried it. 

However, The trim and flap motors operate at identical speed, so as fast as the flaps come up the trim can theoretically come down.  I know it works well in the opposite direction (flaps going down, trim coming up). 

Best regards,

-a-

[Jeff_S]

I did a ton of T&Gs with my instructor while transitioning to the J. He took over flap control so he got us into 15° flaps while I handled everything else. I primarily had to manage trim (electric) and gear, so I got into that rhythm and it was no big deal.

A few months later I decided to do a few on my own at my home drome. But having to stop flap retraction at 15° while taking care of everything else seemed to be too much time eyes-down so I just let them retract fully. That was certainly a different experience! I know many folks never use flaps on takeoff but if you're not used to that sight picture it can be disconcerting. Obviously I'm here and everything worked out, but I would say that doing T&Gs in a retractable certainly adds a great deal to the work load and I'm not comfortable with it yet. Probably the key is to get comfortable with no-flap T/Os and Landings and that's one less component to mess with.

[roundout]

I instruct my students to not do touch n goes in a Mooney. Too many things going on between trim, flaps, power, directional control. Stop and goes on a long runway are fine. Other than that it's full stop taxi back.

[Jeev]

There is a lot going on and I prefer stop and goes but if you only use 15deg of flaps for landing it isnt too bad since you dont have to mess with the flaps on the go...

[KLRDMD]

I used to do touch and gos in my Mooney. I used to teach touch and gos in Mooneys. When I taught at a MAPA PPP and found out they do not allow touch and gos for reasons of safety I rethought my position and no longer do or teach touch and gos in Mooneys.

[231Pilot]

I never did them in my M20C (all manual), but with the J, if I have a long enough runway (5,000' or longer) I have enough room and time to reconfigure.  I still only do them a few times a month, but the reconfiguration (trim, flaps, gear) is the same stuff to deal with on a go around or on a missed and I think it is a good idea to be to make with the changes without getting behind the aircraft.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: 201Pilot

I never did them in my M20C (all manual), but with the J, if I have a long enough runway (5,000' or longer) I have enough room and time to reconfigure.  I still only do them a few times a month, but the reconfiguration (trim, flaps, gear) is the same stuff to deal with on a go around or on a missed and I think it is a good idea to be to make with the changes without getting behind the aircraft.

[N6843N]

So here is a scenerio for you instructor types that is a very real possibility where I live. You have just touched down while landing, a deer runs out from the trees and stops on the runway, your going to fast to stop, do you try a go around? Do you just hit the deer? For the record T&G's in my Mooney just do not float my boat for all the reasons sited above. I think about the above scenerio every time I do an evening landing, yet I still can't make up my mind, which could lead to disaster.

[721lp]

Did 5 T&G's yesterday in my '67 C model, manual gear. Never heard anyone tell me it was not safe. You will develop a better "feel" for the airplane if the instance ever arises that you have to do a quick go around. Flaps up and trim, trim , trim and you are good to go. Luckily I do my practice on an 8,000' x 150' runway (KAVL). I was based prior at a 3,000' x 40' strip. Needless to say......no T&G's there. Also, in the heat of summer at my altitude, 2150', you will learn quickly how density altitude works.......

Jimmy

 

[skyking]

I had to do touch and go's during my insurance mandated 5 hours of dual on type

other than that i dont do t/g's for all the reasons mentioned in the posts.

[rbharvey]

I don't they are particularly difficult, they just are'nt necessarily enjoyable, hence I don't practice them very often. Wrestling with yoke will running trim fast and furiously is the technique in the long bodies, but again I dont find it great fun and I m not sure what scenario you are practicing for that it is vital to master them. Stop and goes I think would be the safest and most efficient way if you were after getting in as many landings as you could at a sufficiently long field.

Bob

[Hank]

     In my electric-gear C, they are not a problem. I follow the guidance in my "Owners Manual" when landing:

"Degree of flap deflection needed will vary according to landing conditions, but for most landings you should lower flaps about half way just prior to turning on to base leg. Extend flaps as required on final approach to adjust for variations in wind, glide angle and other variables."

     Normal landings at my 3000' home field are half flaps on downwind, drop the gear, slow to 85 mph on final, and add more flaps only if necessary. Because we are short with trees at both ends, I don't do T&G there, either.

     For a Toucn-N-Go, it's a normal landing [flaps wherever], roll along while raising flaps all the way, then full power and rotate at 70 mph. It takes a stiff left arm until I'm high enough to feel safe moving my right hand from holding full-everything to start cranking the trim wheel, but it also doesn't take very long to hit 500' agl. It DOES, however, require a long ground run to get the flaps full up before pushing everthing forward. [she doesn't slow down below 50 mph, either.] I like 5000' or more. Did many with my CFII, and some more on my IFR checkride. Not a problem.

     Why do so many people insist on making every landing [except strong, gusty crosswinds] with full flaps? In almost three years' and 300 hours in my Mooney, I can count my full-flap landings on my fingers.

[Guest Anonymous]

Quote: rbharvey

I don't they are particularly difficult, they just are'nt necessarily enjoyable, hence I don't practice them very often. Wrestling with yoke will running trim fast and furiously is the technique in the long bodies, but again I dont find it great fun and I m not sure what scenario you are practicing for that it is vital to master them. Stop and goes I think would be the safest and most efficient way if you were after getting in as many landings as you could at a sufficiently long field.

Bob

[Jeev]

Quote: Hank

  Why do so many people insist on making every landing [except strong, gusty crosswinds] with full flaps? In almost three years' and 300 hours in my Mooney, I can count my full-flap landings on my fingers.

[rob]

     Why do so many people insist on making every landing [except strong, gusty crosswinds] with full flaps? In almost three years' and 300 hours in my Mooney, I can count my full-flap landings on my fingers.

[scottfromiowa]

Normal landings with just me on board I will only occasionally use flaps...and if I do only 1/2 (two pumps on manual flap arm.  I only apply flaps on final and fly downwind and base at 100 mph 80mph over the fence...If I do full flaps when light I float and float on a hot day.   No flaps in flare has nice energy and a squeeker on the mains...If I have one passenger always 1/2 flaps if two passengers always full flaps.  I am always power off (idle) when landing is made regardless of wind unless strong crosswind I may carry a little power into the flare (exception).  As a member of the GUL club (touch & go's with a CFI during Bi-annual flight review w/ simulated power loss down wind by instructor) I HIGHLY recommend NOT doing touch and go's.  GUL's do happen...and it CAN happen to you.  If you don't do a GUMP's check AGAIN on short final...you should consider it.  My mantra is to grab Johnson bar and tug (again) to ensure down and LOCKED.

[Immelman]

If you are on a long enough runway at either a non-busy non-towered field, or a controlled field w/ clearance, do a stop and go. Then there are no issues. Take your time.

The other technique is to do touch and gos ONLY IF

(1) You touch down and get under control before a certain threshold of runway distance remaining (say 1/3 of the way down a 4000' runway for example)

(2) NO configuration changes required. There is nothing that says you have to use full flaps for landing. My E lands very nicely -- even quite smoothly, with flaps in the takeoff position. Note that if properly trimmed for partial flap deployment, you are close to properly trimmed for takeoff. Trimmed for a power-off glide with full flaps is another story, and a reason to forego T&Gs with full flaps.

If you have it down to where you're down, under control, plenty of space left, and need not move your hand from the throttle, then go ahead and go T&Gs.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have never thought touch and goes in the Mooney were particularly difficult. The only thing is to get all over the trim before you bring the power up. As with anything, do what you are comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable doing touch and goes then don't do them. As for me, I use this darn thing (mooney) to commute to work and have been for almost 20 years. So I don't think much about how to take off and land I just do it.

One thing that I have noticed about quite a few Mooneys I have flown is that the idle speed is set way to high. This can cause the plane to float forever. You should have the idle set at 500 RPM (IO-360). This can be acheived if the mags and fuel injector are set up right.

[kerry]

Every couple of weeks or so I spend 30 minutes or so doing T&G's (4 or 5 landings).  I really enjoy it.  I hardly ever use flaps.  I keep 1000 ft pattern allitude.  I go base to final just as my wing tip passes the end of the runway and keeping 100 IAS.  I keep it close and tight.  On final I'm at 80 IAS.  As the threshold gets close I fly by the seat of my pants.  I lightly touch down using only 500 ft. of a 5000 ft. runway.  Pattern work is one of the funniest thing I enjoy when flying.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Hank

  Why do so many people insist on making every landing [except strong, gusty crosswinds] with full flaps? 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: 721lp

Did 5 T&G's yesterday in my '67 C model, manual gear. Never heard anyone tell me it was not safe.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Hank

 In my electric-gear C, they are not a problem. I follow the guidance in my "Owners Manual" when landing: "Degree of flap deflection needed will vary according to landing conditions, but for most landings you should lower flaps about half way just prior to turning on to base leg. Extend flaps as required on final approach to adjust for variations in wind, glide angle and other variables." Normal landings at my 3000' home field are half flaps on downwind, drop the gear, slow to 85 mph on final, and add more flaps only if necessary. Why do so many people insist on making every landing [except strong, gusty crosswinds] with full flaps? In almost three years' and 300 hours in my Mooney, I can count my full-flap landings on my fingers.

[Hank]

I don't remember the PPP saying that it was "unsafe," just that we would not do them as part of the course. My CFII and the DPE both requested touch-and-go landings. I don't do them at home because the field is short [3001'] and obstructed at both ends [tall trees]. While not part of my normal routine, they are in my bag of tricks if needed.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Hank

I don't remember the PPP saying that it was "unsafe," just that we would not do them as part of the course. 

[JohnPleisse]

Pounch on the forward trim, positve ROC, then clean. Repeat. 

I think it is a requisite skill for go-arounds, but as a practical matter, harder on the plane. Hard ground ops bring on tank leaks. I think T&G's in any retract enhances the possibility of a gear -up.