Turbocharge me!

[FlyDave]

As posted here on Mooneyspace, I have been looking to move to a turbocharged aiplane for a number of months now. This decision was initially a result of my wife and I flying our 201 from our home airport (o69) to Jackson Hole WY and back. 15K in a 201 fully loaded in the summer was difficult. Not un-doable but not pleasant. The return trip was VFR until we got to the Reno basin where it was IFR over Lake Tahoe and the surrounding mountains. I got a clearance and climbed to 13K and went into the soup which was only about 25 miles east to west then VFR in the central valley. Within 30 seconds into the clouds and watching the temps drop to 0C I saw a light coating of rhime ice forming on the wings. I asked for a 180 and back to VFR conditions. 13K in a 200 HP normally asperated airplane, over mountainous terain and adding ANY amount of ice was a no go. We landed Reno got some fuel and watched as holes north of us opened up - we went home VFR shortly after landing.
I spoke to a few MooneySpacer's about their experience with their airplanes and started looking at 252's and even a couple of Rockets.
I had been talking to Jimmy Garrison at All American about a 252 but the owner was just a flake (Jimmy ended up dropping the listing) then I spoke to him about a 252 Rocket. I hadn't conversed with him for a few days on it when I got an email from him saying "David, don't make a move on a plane for about 10 days.  I think I have the perfect plane for you.   Will trade... Jimmy". I asked him what it was and he said it was a Bravo. I thought "Ug, a bravo". I didn't think I wanted a Bravo based on some of the things I read but I was willing to listen. He emails me the specs and pictures the following Monday. It looked like it was in decent shape with only 1450 TT airframe and engine. The plane wasn't flown much for 6 years which gave me real cause for concern. It had been flown a total of 270 hours in the previous 3 years so I was willing to take a chance based on Jimmy's reputation and the fact that this plane had everything I wanted: KFC autopilot, KAS-297 altitude preselect/veritcal speed select, 530W, 696 fed from 530, stormscope, JPI engine monitor, electric SB AI, hot prop, etc. The most recent owner had also upgraded the panel and repaired/replaced a bunch of items over the previous 2 years.
So, sight unseen nor flown, I wired a deposit to Jimmy. In an email he said "If you want to do a prebuy for acceptance purposes, no problem, but I am not going to beat you up over your plane and I will ask for the same...". That is exactly how I prefer to do business - no bullshit with last minute oh this doesn't work and that piece of plastic is broken - take $3k off. NO plane is squawk free - my plane included - but I knew my 201 is a great plane. Don Maxwell gave the Bravo a very clean bill of health but his guys were still putting it back together after the Prebuy (cam/lifter inspection) so even without flying the plane I finished the deal with Jimmy and didn't get to fly it until the next day.
The next day....Holy Cow!! Bring up the throttle gently to 32" and roll in the rest with the vernier and you are hauling the freight down that runway. Rotate and in no time climbing at 1,000+ fpm. This is an amazing airplane, simply amazing!
I needed a checkout in it for insurance purposes but, not realizing it at first, also to be safe. This is not a 201. This is a heavy and much more powerful airplane. I also needed a high power endorsement. So Don Kaye flew to Texas and we did some quick training and then back to California we went. First leg into a headwind we stayed down at 4500' but eventually worked our way up to 14,500' where the plane trued out at 193 knots on 18.5 gph  (not used to this yet....) with CHT's under 400 dF and TIT around 1575 dF. In short, this plane is very fast!
So, if you're looking for a plane, give Jimmy Garrison a call. He doesn't sell crap airplanes and is a straight shooter. In short, a great guy to deal with.
Don Maxwell is a wonderful person to deal with as well. He and his crew are straight shooters and know Mooney's like the back of their hands. Again you won't be disappointed.
And Don Kaye knows how to fly Mooneys and will get you straightened out (if you need it - I did!). Ask him about 3 degrees. He told me the first time and I didn't listen, so he had to tell me a second time .
Below are a few pics of my new plane. I'll post some performance numbers when I have more time in it.

Fly Safe,

Dave

[NotarPilot]

Bravo on the Bravo good sir!

[Awful_Charlie]

Welcome to the club!  Looking forward to reading and learning more of your experiences, there's a few of us here now

 

Ben

[Danb]

Dave..congrats...I owned 2 awesome J models one bought new in 1988... Somehow in a low moment not looking for another airplane I bought a new Bravo in 2006/ 2005 model....a awesome trip plane. Not as fun in my opinion as my J models but perfect for our trips most in the 1000 mile range. Long range tanks pay for themselves....welcome to the bravo club. Good luck. Kiss it good night and don't believe the rumors...tlc works. Some of my best friends are in the other club. What's that beechtalk ...we are lucky to drive the greatest machines made by Mr Al Mooney. The guys on this forum are great and knowledgeable except some of us nerds then this forum is extra good for all the insight and experience here...have fun fly safe train train and almost forgot buy a Corvette while your young. Welcome. Dan

[rbridges]

nice plane.  32" manifold pressure?  wow. 

[carqwik]

What were the not-so-good "things" about the Bravo you read/heard before making the leap?  Other than the fuel flows of course...

[Seth]

Congratulations on your new fire breather!!!

 

The Bravo is a good buy right now.  There is a lot of support here by Bravo fliers.  I love my Missile, but I do agree that the nose is much heavier on the six cylinder big bore models.  Those long range tanks are fantastic.

 

-Seth

[gjkirsch]

In my opinion, the Bravo only has a couple of weak points and many more strong ones.  The two weak ones are the fuel burn and the exhaust system.  After that, it is almost bullet proof.  The wet head engine will most likely make TBO with original cylinders.  The strong points are that it has a lot of redundant systems, is fast down low and really fast up high, climbs well at any temperature and weight, and with long range tanks has great range.

[carusoam]

Congrats Dave!

What year is she?

She has many upgrades since she first left the factory!

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Heck of a triple header!

All American, Maxwell and Kaye. Doesn't get much better than that.

Best of luck, and bravo!!

[carusoam]

That's three good ways to minimize risk...

[FlyDave]

What were the not-so-good "things" about the Bravo you read/heard before making the leap?  Other than the fuel flows of course...

There were a few things:

 

Fuel burn: This was probably the biggest issue. Going from 10.5 gph at 155 TAS to 18.5 gph at I-don't-care-what-the-TAS-is was a hard pill to swallow. But after reading the POH and some posts here on MS about power settings and TAS numbers I realized I could throttle back and get within a few gallons of what I burned in the J and the same speeds but at higher altitudes. I have only flown this airplane about 11 hours and much of that was from Don Maxwell's to California but the one thing I can tell you is that this plane likes altitude!

 

Additional maintenance: This will be a more expensive airplane to maintain but I don't have a feel for that yet. The exhaust system can be expensive but I think it can last pretty long if you don't run TIT over 1650. We kept TIT well under 1600 on the way back from Texas and with the little bit of local flying I've done so far, throttling back brings TIT way down and CHT's easily to the 350 dF range or under.

 

High instrument panel: I'm 5'5" and my wife is 5'2". I wasn't sure if I would be able to see over the panel but with the fully articulating seats I can see just fine. I think my wife will be able to see as well (I'll give her a pillow if she can't - Thanks Notar!). In any case, having the extra room in the panel is absolutely fantastic! This plane has literally everything I wanted and it's not shoe-horned into the panel.

 

So fuel burn has potentially been mitigated but, when you know you can push that throttle in and go 50 knots faster, well it's pretty darn tempting! I'll have to see what the maintenance is over the next few years but either way, I'm sold. This is an amazing airplane!

[FlyDave]

Congrats Dave!

What year is she?

She has many upgrades since she first left the factory!

Best regards,

-a-

1989 - first year for the Bravo.

1475 TT AF & Engine. Previous owner put almost 300 hours on her in the last 3 years. I'm going to put a whole lot more in the next 3!

[FlyDave]

What were the not-so-good "things" about the Bravo you read/heard before making the leap?  Other than the fuel flows of course...

One more item on the not-so-good things was engine rebuild cost. Factory engines are EXPENSIVE. but I got quotes from a few of the big name shops and I can knock $15-20K off of the cost. So that's "better".

[johnggreen]

I flew my Bravo for 8 years, 80% long x-c.  I truly had the need for a twin and bought an Aerostar 601P.  I miss the Bravo.  If I had it to do over again, I would probably keep the Bravo and just buy more airline tickets for those occasions where a single is not the "smart" choice.

 

Of course it cost more to fly than a J model, more engine, more systems, but a hell of a lot more capability.  I think that you will find the sweet spot for the Bravo to be the mid-teens, 2200 RPM's and 28-30" of MP.  It will still give you 185 knots and usually burn less than 15 gph.  From the temp numbers you quoted, I think you need to have your baffles replaced BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING; like Don Maxwell.  I rarely saw more than 320 degrees CHT on any cylinder.  I hope you have a six cylinder engine monitor.  Also, don't go over 400 hours without rebuilding mags.  A knowledgeable mechanic can do this for less than $300 each.

 

By the way, LOP is a waste of time with the Bravo.

 

Jgreen

[AndyFromCB]

I'm heading to Jackson Hole on Feb 8th. If you see a black and silver Bravo sitting on the ramp, that would be mine. It's one of the few singles that meets the IFR gradient out of there but I still won't depart if it's less than 4000/3 required for VFR climb to IFR. Way too many things to hit should the engine stumble ;-) 

[AndyFromCB]

One more item on the not-so-good things was engine rebuild cost. Factory engines are EXPENSIVE. but I got quotes from a few of the big name shops and I can knock $15-20K off of the cost. So that's "better".

 

Yeah, the lycoming overhaul cost for this engine are insane but it does include new turbo and exhaust transition. However, it's really a 30K overhaul to new limits if you use a smaller shop (like Central Cylinder here in Omaha) and your exhaust transition is in good shape. Don't be scared of the 8K retail price on it. Both Acorn and Plane Exhaust can make a "new one" for around $1,500.

 

When I overhauled mine at about 1600 hours due to camshaft problems, my cylinders were still meeting new specs, so there is something to be said for the oil cooled valves. I still had them rebuilt with all new parts but it was nice to know.

[ZamF16]

Congrats on the Bravo.  I have owned mine for 3 years and have loved every minute including a flight from San Antonio to Montgomery, Al in 2 hrs and 15 min at 25k'.  I was travelling comfortably at 25k' and 215 TAS with 296 kts ground speed.  I wouldn't trade my Bravo for any other airplane. 

 

-Zam