Mooney ... Sold to the Chinese?

[mcpilot]

The Chinese saw a bargain in MAC and they jumped on it... The Chinese are flush with cash and eager to invest in tangible assets.  The dollar is devalued because of quantitative easing, so tangible assets are a way for them to have actual equity.

 

The Mooney (no matter which metal model)  a solid design, made with solid materials. The Chinese did not buy the type certificate to just sit on it.  They see an opportunity.   I am thinking that this is a good thing for us as owners.

[John Pleisse]

5 years ago..... legitimate construction couldn't occur in the US because the Chinese hoarded the world's concrete supplies. Not long after, their sheet rock wound up in thousands of US homes. We all know what happened there. I can't think of a single instance where China has had American interests at heart. They have no experience with general aviation. Not China bashing...just reasonable observation.

 

Don't make me buy a Dream Catcher.

[Hector]

Wow, big news!!! Too early to tell what effect it will have on our birds. I would like to stay positive and hope it may revitalize Mooney, restart production, even introduce some new models, more upgrades for the existing fleet, better supply for parts at lower cost, and maybe even increase desirability for used Mooneys now that the outlook for the brand looks less in doubt. Somebody slap me I think I'm dreaming! One can only hope.......

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[flyboy0681]

You go first!!

 

 

 

For the right price I would.

 

In this months Aviation Consumer they have an article about failure of 30 cylinders from Engine Components International (ECI). The issue: 30 failures out of 30,000 installed in the field. Better believe it that if cylinders manufactured in China started failing that the FAA would be over it like flies on you know what.

[DaV8or]

Just more decline. Sad. First sign of lay offs at Kerrville, or imported parts and 89M is for sale and experimental here I come!

[co2bruce]

Can't be too many layoffs, there aren't that many people still employed there. I have spoken to people close to the situation and I believe this will be a good thing for us owners.

[Cabanaboy]

 

 

http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-chinese

[PMcClure]

Admittedly, I am not close to the situation in Kerrville. But my take is that if the new owners support the current factory and invest there it is a great thing. If they move manufacturing and refurbishment to China, I see a train wreck. Wish I have a few million to buy it myself!

[Steve Dawson]

I don't believe that all the doom and gloom forecast here is at all warranted. Cirrus, beechcraft and TCM have continued with Cirrus taking on supplying components of Icon and re-starting development of their VLJ. TCM has now seriously brought to market their diesel. Both companies knew what the future needed in modernizing to survive and couldn't do this without a large cash infusion.  

Mooney has a lot going for it. They're known as being both a fast and efficient aircraft with distinctive looks and an engineering broweness that helped them sell aircraft.

With the comment Bennett made,  its possible that the new owners have a future for a well known and establish aircraft company.

Certainly aircraft fuel has a questionable future and its cost will become prohibitive in the near future. Secondly to build a sleek and comfortable aircraft similar to the Panthera is the way to the future in design.

General aviation isn't surviving on past designs and engineering. But a very sleek comfortable new Mooney design fitted with a Jet A fuelled engine that can be flown anywhere in the world there is fuel for it is a future.

The only way to accomplish this is with investment. I'm guessing they won't build it in China for the same reasons TCM and Cirrus are built here. Skllled people, certifications and keeping customers confident that their aircraft is looked after by trusted people for quality and assurance.

[mike_elliott]

 I'm guessing they won't build it in China for the same reasons TCM and Cirrus are built here. Skllled people, certifications and keeping customers confident that their aircraft is looked after by trusted people for quality and assurance.

 

The article said they were targeting the Asian market place, however. It would make sense for them to manufacture there, where the Asian customer can be confident it isn't full of overpriced, FAA encumbered, Obsolete technology might be one view.

[Jsavage3]

I'll never fly a Chinese aircraft. Better put my 2002 Ovation up for sale before it is official!! 

 

The Chinese already bought Cirrus and Continental engines...  

[1964-M20E]

Well this just totally screws my plans.   I was to buy Mooney after I won the power ball , mega millions and Bill gates adopted me and gave me his fortune.  I was going to restart production incorporating improvements to the airframe but it seems once again defeat has escaped from the jaws of victory.  

 

I do not know how this will work out but if they can start producing good airframes with some improvements and a turbo diesel engine for a reasonable price it just might work. I think as long as the follow the KISS philosophy they can succeed.

[jkhirsch]

It's part of chinese culture to believe they are superior to others, even other native people to China. I don't think it's reaching too far to say that the Chinese think "they" are better than us, and the rest of the world, which is why they have continuously undermined, what many would consider, commonly decent business practices in order to build an "empire."

[Rich]

I think we have to remember the likely reason for Mooney's continuing fiscal trouble. It is likely that their antiquated manufacturing contributed to it. There is no doubt that Mooneys are extremely well crafted, but perhaps the cost to do things the way they do it won't allow business success in this competitive world.

[bnicolette]

Probably not far off?

 

[jkhirsch]

someone referenced earlier some "designs" floating around on the internet, can someone reproduce a link or the images?

[wiseng]

My first thought was "there goes the neighborhood".  After reading the posts I am starting to get worried if production ends up in China.  I do not trust the Chinese nor do I trust most CEO's of major corps.   There are exceptions but with China its a no brainer.  

[chrisk]

There is no doubt there are corruption and quality issues in China.   Here is a good example of a 13 story building that fell over.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktM__i-8IQ.     However, I don't believe anyone was killed.  When people die, or there is sufficient media attention, the penalties can be much harsher.     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/china-milk-scandal-2-get-_n_159908.html 

 

If the harsher standard is applied to aircraft manufacturing, it will probably be reasonably safe, possibly safer than the US system.  And when I say this, I am thinking of that rebuilt Mooney that was recently on ebay.

[DaV8or]

So, I know the Chinese bought Mooney for pennies, but I have been trying to figure out just what it is they bought. Did they get a modern, successful aircraft type? No. Mooneys have not sold well for decades and are outdated for the modern buyer. Did they get a state of the art manufacturing facility? No. Old jigs and fixtures and everything you need to build a plane 1960s style. In addition the work force now works at Wal Mart. Did they get a cutting edge engineering department. No. Laid off decades ago.

 

What they did get- A parts and support business for some 4-5,000 existing airplanes. A logo and trademarked name that still has good will. I assume a nice big building in an area that is good for doing business in the US. All the liability exposure for any Mooney that crashes from here on out.

 

Here is the unknown. Did they get any significant patents? Three of the things that make a Mooney great and should be transferred over to a new design airframe is, the wing, the landing gear system and the tail trimming system. Are there patents on any of this stuff?

[DaV8or]

There is no doubt there are corruption and quality issues in China.   Here is a good example of a 13 story building that fell over. 

 

Wow. Anybody want to buy a cheap apartment? There's some still standing!

[yvesg]

So, I know the Chinese bought Mooney for pennies, but I have been trying to figure out just what it is they bought. Did they get a modern, successful aircraft type? No. Mooneys have not sold well for decades and are outdated for the modern buyer. Did they get a state of the art manufacturing facility? No. Old jigs and fixtures and everything you need to build a plane 1960s style. In addition the work force now works at Wal Mart. Did they get a cutting edge engineering department. No. Laid off decades ago.

 

What they did get- A parts and support business for some 4-5,000 existing airplanes. A logo and trademarked name that still has good will. I assume a nice big building in an area that is good for doing business in the US. All the liability exposure for any Mooney that crashes from here on out.

 

Here is the unknown. Did they get any significant patents? Three of the things that make a Mooney great and should be transferred over to a new design airframe is, the wing, the landing gear system and the tail trimming system. Are there patents on any of this stuff?

Patents have a 20 year life span. I doubt that Mooney have ANY recent patent still active.

Yves

[mcpilot]

They got Type Certificates....

[DaV8or]

They got Type Certificates....

 

Yes and as far as I can see, they are nearly worthless. I'm assuming they have the Certs for the M18, the M20 and the M22. I believe the M10 Cadet was sold off decades ago. Not a lot of demand for the M18 Mite, although a single and tandem seat kit plane in either composite, or metal might have some success. Both the M20 and M22 would require significant rework to be viable in the modern GA market and at that point, you might as well start from scratch.

 

Any minute now, somebody is going to say, just build new M20Js for $200,000, put a diesel engine on it and all will be well.

[Jeff_S]

Has any of this actually been confirmed? Or is everyone reacting to a single, poorly-worded press release that could just as easily be a joke?

 

But if this truly has come to pass, I think it's a good thing. Mooney certainly needed the influx of cash, and there is probably a growing market in China. There are those who express doubt and mistrust of China but to that I say "money is money" and in this case Mooney-money makes it even better.  One poster has already noted that all your i-Devices are already made in China and they work pretty darned okay.

[mcpilot]

Yes and as far as I can see, they are nearly worthless. I'm assuming they have the Certs for the M18, the M20 and the M22. I believe the M10 Cadet was sold off decades ago. Not a lot of demand for the M18 Mite, although a single and tandem seat kit plane in either composite, or metal might have some success. Both the M20 and M22 would require significant rework to be viable in the modern GA market and at that point, you might as well start from scratch.

 

Any minute now, somebody is going to say, just build new M20Js for $200,000, put a diesel engine on it and all will be well.

I would guess that the buyers put a lot of due diligence into the purchase and more than likely have a plan...  I am going to be they know a lot more about Mooney and where they are going to take it than anyone on this forum...