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Taxiing, the hardest part of going into B airport?

201er

By 201er
in Miscellaneous Aviation Talk

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201er Grand Master

201er

Posted
Posted

I've had the chance to fly into Philadelphia International and Boston Logan on some PALS flights I've been doing lately:

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CMF61H

 

Pretty interesting flight coming into Boston on the ILS27 approach with 1200 overcast.

 

Anyway, is it just me or is taxiing the hardest part of going to airports like this!? Flying across the country and finding the airport in low ceilings doesn't seem to compare with trying to find obscure taxiway intersections. Seems we get more help in the air than on the ground. Who else feels this way? Any tips for getting around these kinds of airports more easily? I already have the georeferenced taxiway diagrams on ipad, without them I would never been able to keep track of where I was.

Super Dave Collaborator

Super Dave

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Funny, I'm sitting at Newark Liberty as I write this, and I completely agree. Even though ground was helpfull and our taxi route was pretty straight forward, taxing to Signature after landing was by far the most stressful part of my morning.

Geo referenced airport diagrams are great, but personally, I wouldn't fly into the primary airport of a class B without another qualified pilot to navigate and copy taxi instructions.

1964-M20E Grand Master

1964-M20E

Posted
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Study the airport diagram before you get there, ask for progressive taxi instructions, taxi slower than normal if necessary, and have your portable GPS show you where you are on the airport diagram and if you have any doubts as to where you are or where to go just ask ground.  Even if ground gets mad at you or they think you are incompetent it is better than an incursion or an incursion with disastrous results.  After receiving and writing down taxi instructions look at the diagram and visualize where you need to go.

 

I was at a D airport for the first time and asked for progressive taxi and it was not much better than the first time they gave me my taxi route.  I always keep a hard copy as well as my portable GPS copy of the airport diagram for the airports I am traveling to even when I’m flying VFR.

  • Like 1
Jeff_S Grand Master

Jeff_S

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+1 on progressive taxi instructions. But even with that I managed to screw up a departure out of CLT (Charlotte) one time. I had dropped off an Angel Flight passenger and was trying to go home. Taxiing from the GA facility out to the runway was a bit challenging because the runway was at an acute angle from the taxiway and wasn't well marked at the particular intersection they wanted me to use. So they cleared me for departure and I just taxied right over the runway and down the other side, still looking for the runway.  They quickly asked me what was going on and gave me a 180 to get back to the runway and out of their hair. I could almost hear the relief in the controller's voice as this little Piper Warrior finally left his airspace!

Glenn Community Regular

Glenn

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I agree with the utility of geo-referenced taxi diagrams. I have also always found that if I simply stated that I was "unfamiliar" immediately prior to requesting progressive, I received good service and a gracious attitude from Ground Control.

201er Grand Master

201er

Posted
  • Author
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Guys, it's not about progressive taxi. It's not that I can't copy/draw a taxi clearance. The trouble I have is those crazy intersections where someone can tell you "take Juliet!" or even "make that squiggly right, then left on Juliet" and it still wouldn't help. Especially at night!

 

At Springfield, ground told me to taxi Bravo to the ramp but that put me on the air carrier ramp that they recently erected a fence across from the GA ramp. Had to ask for another taxi clearance cause they didn't give it to me right the first time. Anyway, my point is that I find it more likely to get lost and have trouble taxiing at a complex airport than flying the instrument approach.

Jeff_S Grand Master

Jeff_S

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Yes, well, you've made your point I guess, and we've agreed with it. Perhaps your line of questioning was a bit more rhetorical and didn't really elicit a helpful response, more along the lines of what many men experience such as in this video:

 

http://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg

 

:lol:

  • Like 2
bnicolette Veteran

bnicolette

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Guys, it's not about progressive taxi. It's not that I can't copy/draw a taxi clearance. The trouble I have is those crazy intersections where someone can tell you "take Juliet!" or even "make that squiggly right, then left on Juliet" and it still wouldn't help. Especially at night! At Springfield, ground told me to taxi Bravo to the ramp but that put me on the air carrier ramp that they recently erected a fence across from the GA ramp. Had to ask for another taxi clearance cause they didn't give it to me right the first time. Anyway, my point is that I find it more likely to get lost and have trouble taxiing at a complex airport than flying the instrument approach.
Hmmmmm. Well then one thing you could do would be to not go in there or take someone with you that knows how to navigate on the ground. ;-p Seriously though the best thing you can do is pre-plan and orientate yourself with that airports layout. Youll have an idea of what runway they'll be using and the direction you'll need to go for the FBO. Always, when in doubt, STOP and ask for a progressive or clarification.
201er Grand Master

201er

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Always, when in doubt, STOP and ask for a progressive or clarification.

Well... when I was coming up to a runway I was cleared to cross in my original taxi instructions, I saw an airplane on it and stopped to ask if I was still cleared to cross. Ground was pissed and said "yes there's an airplane on the runway, continue across as previously instructed!"

bnicolette Veteran

bnicolette

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Always, when in doubt, STOP and ask for a progressive or clarification. Well... when I was coming up to a runway I was cleared to cross in my original taxi instructions, I saw an airplane on it and stopped to ask if I was still cleared to cross. Ground was pissed and said "yes there's an airplane on the runway, continue across as previously instructed!"
So what. Let them be pissed. Better than you causing an accident or getting violated.
Robert C. Experienced

Robert C.

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That one's a classic! I nearly hurt myself laughing when I watched it, my wife didn't even crack a smile . . .

 

ROFL

 

I'm not even showing my wife this one :D

laytonl Experienced

laytonl

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After a Philly controller had a little difficulty with me trying to comprehend his taxi instructions he finally said, "do you see that Southwest 737 in front of you? Just follow him until I tell you otherwise." The Southwest crew came on the frequency and said, "we'll take care of you little buddy!" Worked for me. Lee

Hector Veteran

Hector

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I think those Class B taxi ways make a lot more sence when your cockpit is 4 stories in the air.
Specially true at night!! In a Mooney sitting low to the ground, dark night in a busy airport, all those lights just mix together in a big soup. Georeferenced taxi plates make all the difference. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
N9453V Community Regular

N9453V

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Really depends on the airport. MSY is a bravo and dead simple... if you land on 10-28, turn off at C and straight ahead to Atlantic or $ignature and departure is 10-28 at intersection C. HOU is a bit more complicated, but after being based there for a few months I got used to it.

 

The most annoying airport for taxiing I've been into is CMH (landing 28R, had to taxi across a bridge to get to Landmark), a charlie and the most confusing is SAC, a delta.

 

-Andrew

  • 2 weeks later...

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