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I think discussing who is to blame (if me or the shop) at this point has been already covered. I'm using AOPA services to guide me in possible solutions/compensations, but my main concern is getting the aircraft fixed and ready to fly again. Just as more context info, I requested the shop to do a prebuy and following that a annual inspection. The point was to due all the "inspection" part of the annual as part of the prebuy, and complete whatever was remaining (for instance wheel bearing service due or service the spark plugs) after the purchase. In the annual inspection report they stated: "Finish Annual inspection after Pre-Purchase." And also, at least verbally, they confirmed that during prebuy they opened or the inspection panels. Anyway, it could be as @JWJR mentioned, maybe the annual was done by a different mechanich, and that's why it came up. Also, I agree with @LANCECASPER that I have to value that they were honest in declaring the corrosion and also in saying that they are not able to repair it. So, at the end, they are not gaining anything with this. Also, they are helping me get the quotes from Don Maxwell and dugosh.com. Ando also they offered to help with the ferry permit. I'm not mad at them, nor I want to take advantage of the situation. I just want to try to come to an agreement that is fair. In my view, it is not fair for me to absorb all the cost of this. Anyway, if at the end there is no agreement and no legal way of getting a compensation of this, I will just move the page forward, enjoy the new aircraft, be 15k poorer but feeling confident with a safe airplane.

I got a bunch of emails from my students about this accident. It was largely driven by Dan Gryder's video. He has no doubt icing caused this accident. I don't know this guy and he evidently has a huge following. But, this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about…please don’t follow him. He plays the ATIS at the time of departure which says the temperature is +7°C and then he says immediately after that, “…taking off into freezing drizzle.” Huh? First, you can’t have freezing drizzle at the surface with that warm of a temperature and second, there’s nothing in that ATIS that says anything about freezing drizzle or even precipitation. He then goes onto say that it gets colder as you go up. Yes, eventually it does get colder, but not at the altitudes the pilot was flying…it was actually getting warmer. Evidently this guy has never heard about temperature inversions. Ugh! That’s why so many pilots get really screwed up when it comes to making weather decisions since they listen to guys like this. This video has gotten almost 50,000 views already…just insane. If you want an accurate analysis, please visit my blog and read this post.

That you use an apostrophe when you make Mooney plural.

Funny how your explanation prompted a memory. My older child was about 7 when she came home from school with a note from the teacher saying she wasn’t paying attention in class. She had a regular pediatrician scheduled for that week and I mentioned her attention issue. He looked in her ears and said her attention issue was caused by the fact she couldn’t hear. Before sending her off to an ENT, he asked if I could try flushing her ears with one of those pharmacy kits. Every night for the next several days I rinsed out her ears. On the 4th night out came these huge plugs of wax - from both ears. She looked at me and said “Daddy, I can hear!” Now if I can only find a kit for Tinnitus! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I’m working with a friend on a 310. He bought some used engines. He asked me to do a compression check on one. One of the cylinders only made 10 Lbs. I told him he should pull the cylinder and fix it. He didn’t want to do that, so I said “put the cylinder TDC on the compression Stroke, fill it full of oil, gently pull the prop to force the oil through the rings.” He did it with MMO. We ran it the next day and did another compression check and it was at 65 Lbs. The oil must have loosened the rings that were probably rusted in place. The engine runs fine BTW.

As of today pilot out of surgery in normal room and eating a little apple sauce. Recovery looks good right now.

It was released and includes: Changes made from version 7.30 to 8.00: Added support for Smart Glide Added ability to simultaneously arm flight director VNAV along with GP or GS mode Added additional data to SD card flight data logging Added notification of missing/undetected battery Added menu option to diagnostic page to access AFCS diagnostic log Added support for LP+V CDI scale Improved AFCS operation with blocked pitot tube Adjusted appearance of dual cue flight director General improvements to system operation Includes GMC 507 software version 3.10 Includes GSA 28 software version 4.90/2.20 Includes GMU 11 software version 2.10 Includes GAD 13 software version 2.10 Includes GAD 29B software version 3.40 Includes GAD 29D software version 2.10

I tend to agree with most of what Mike Busch says, only pull a cylinder if it’s really warranted. Some places when they see 59 psi they pull it, sometimes even when it’s higher. Even on continental engines, where they clearly have a service letter that says it could be as low as about 42 psi and still be passing. on my own personal engine it was 52 psi and hissing out of the exhaust. We’re scoping it showed a heat stress valve. I was tempted to lap it in place and I probably could’ve done that, but I had a feeling the valve guide was shot which is why the valve burned… that turned out to be true so a new valve guide and valve got it fixed. But I only pulled it because it was necessary

You aren't going to like this . . . but here goes: It's already been mentioned multiple times by those that work on Mooneys every day that a pre-buy is very unlikely to catch this unless unless by chance you would have known to have specifically asked them to look for it, which few people would have. I wouldn't have before this post on a Mooney this recent. All of us on this forum are learning at your expense. Going forward if someone wants to pay the hours required for this to be part of their pre-buy inspection at least it's out there for everyone to consider. Here's the part you aren't going to like: In thinking about this over the last few days, the easiest thing in the world for that shop to have done would have been to ignore what they found if they felt that they should have caught it during the pre-buy. They didn't feel that they should have caught it but they still did have the integrity to tell you about it. Their life would have been easier for the next week or two if they hadn't told you. That wouldn't have been ethical but I'm sure it's been done at one point somewhere. It's not like they were trying to get the job for the repair. They don't even feel comfortable doing it. Knowledge is power. Knowing sooner is better. Yeah it would have been better to have known before closing, for sure. But at some point if it goes too long, it may have totaled the airplane. Would the next annual have caught it? Hard to say. Would any annual in the next five have caught it? Did any of the last five annuals catch it? So i would definitely give the shop some credit for informing you on what they found during the longer, more thorough annual inspection. Rather than having anger, regret, remorse at this point I would work on channeling that toward at least some gratitude that they told you about it and just concentrate on moving toward a solution. Try to work out something fair for both of you. Also not sure why you would need a ferry permit since it's still in annual until the end of February.

You just need a Xi navigator with the upgraded software, and a flight display (G3X, G5, G275, G500/600 ect) with the correct software updates. The updates mentioned above added G5s and G3Xs to the list of approved flight displays. The panel mounted button is an option but not required. Without it you can activate smart glide by holding the Direct to button for 2 seconds or the emergency touch button in the menu.

Ah, I see. You are using the standard lapse rate instead of using the actual temps aloft (or forecast temps aloft). Not sure I understand why you'd do that. But what happens if the environmental lapse rate is greater than the standard? Then you've calculated the freezing level to be much higher than it actually is. No thanks. But, you do you. I'd rather use the actual/forecast temps aloft and make a much more informed decision. In this accident, the actual lapse rate was not 2°C/1000 feet, it was negative as I describe in this post. That put the freezing level above 9,000 feet MSL (likely near 11,000 feet). I teach all of my students, never, ever use the standard lapse rate for any meteorological decisions. The only time it's acceptable to use is to calculate the departure from standard for those POH/AFM performance tables.

Hi Greg, There seems to have been a lot of people (based on the comments he received) that didn't go as far as you did with this...that is, believe there could be a temperature inversion. Just quite a shame that so many of his followers are being misled. No, I don't have any good sites to use that provides a truly historical model-based Skew-T. NASA did have one, but it seemed to stop working many years ago. At some point I will likely provide one on my site, but that's several years off (hopefully before I retire in about 7 years).

Aha! You gave me an idea. Found it. Now, I want one too.

Title says it all. I would like to think I was so smooth on the controls she could sleep like a baby… Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Circling back around on this at colder temps. OAT does obviously affect output, but not as much as I thought (may be of interest to @Ragsf15e). At OATs in the single digits, output was still very robust. All of the settings felt quite hot and were more than adequate to keep me comfortable while wearing a T-shirt and lightweight fleece. OAT 7°F 25LOP Max heater output 172.7° 100ROP Max heater output 157.2° Peak Max heater output 174°. My little 200hp bird really tries to overachieve in these chilly temps despite a governor that’s holding 50rpm shy of redline.

So blame the customer instead of the prebuy shop. Who conveniently found the corrosion a couple days after the plane changed hands. They couldn’t possibly find it until they did. MSC pedigree. Ok…

\G3X Version 9.0 is also released including Smart Glide. Changes made from version 8.64 to 9.00: Add support for Smart Glide Add Emergency page and optional EMERG button in data bar Add ability to simultaneously arm flight director VNAV along with GP or GS mode Add support for FIS-B Center Weather Advisories and Graphical AIRMET Add display of GTN Xi series navigator VNAV TOD/BOD positions on map Add fuel flow/quantity labels to EFIS/Airdata ARINC 429 output format Add support for GTX 3x5D diversity transponders Add ability to schedule fuel tank reminder based on fuel quantity used Add support for displaying fuel quantity and flow values in units of lbs or kg Add ability to enable/disable fuel calculator automatic reset of fuel-used quantity in normal mode Add ability to record engine cycles Add ability to touch PFD AOA field to temporarily mute audio alert Add support for LP+V CDI scale Add display of density altitude on PFD when on the ground Add CAS message to indicate ADS-B transmit inhibited by pilot Add CAS messages to indicate ESP inhibited Add menu option to autopilot config page to access AFCS diagnostic log Add additional data field options Improve map display of TFR, NOTAM, and obstacle data Improve AFCS operation with blocked pitot tube Improve heading display when true direction is selected Improve altitude display when adjusting baro setting or below sea level Improve synthetic vision Pathways display Improve data log file processing Improve audio alerting Improve COM radio data processing Improve transponder interface Improve functionality of GSU 25 backup RS-232 connection Improve ARINC 429 label output Improve GNX 375 GPS data processing Improve Connext data processing Change ESP to inhibit protection when a miscompare is detected Adjust appearance of dual cue flight director Correct display of winds aloft magnitude for FIS-B sources General improvements to system operation Includes update to G5 software version 8.00 Includes update to GAD13 software version 2.10 Includes update to GAD27 software version 2.70 Includes update to GAD29 software version 3.40 Includes update to GAD29C/D software version 2.10 Includes update to GAD29C/D boot block software version 2.00 Includes update to GDL5x software version 2.15 Includes update to GEA24 software version 3.90 Includes update to GMA245 software version 2.80 Includes update to GMC507 software version 3.10 Includes update to GMU11 software version 2.10 Includes update to GPS20A GPS software version 2.10 Includes updates to GSA28 software version 4.90/2.20 Includes update to GSU25/B software version 4.30 Includes update to GSU25C/D software version 2.70 Includes update to GSU73 software version 3.80 Includes update to GSU73 IGRF database version 1.04 (Base Year 2020) Includes update to timezone database version 28.00 Includes G5 boot block software version 2.20 Includes GAD13 boot block software version 2.00 Includes GAD27 boot block software version 2.30 Includes GAD29 boot block software version 3.10 Includes GDL39 software version 4.91 Includes GEA24 boot block software version 2.20 Includes GI260 software version 2.80 Includes GI260 boot block software version 2.20 Includes GMA245 audio software version 2.20 Includes GMA245 Bluetooth software version 2.00 Includes GMA245 boot block software version 2.30 Includes GMC507 boot block software version 2.30 Includes GMU11 boot block software version 2.00 Includes GPS20A software version 2.40 Includes GPS20A boot block software version 2.10 Includes GSA28 boot block software version 2.20/2.10 Includes GSU25/B boot block software version 2.20 Includes GSU25C/D boot block software version 2.00 Includes GTR20/200 software version 3.30 Includes GTR20/200 boot block software version 2.30 22010A_ASDN.pdf

You should ask old Dan about his own crash. Bet you he would say it was caused by a microburst. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If she's still taking psychostimulant medication and/or plans to continue, that's pretty much an automatic disqualifying medication for any class medical. I think I recall seeing that in the FAA guidance for AME's somewhere. The diagnosis of ADHD should not by itself automatically be disqualifying (unless the condition is actually impairing enough to prevent flying), so If she stops it or plans to stop medication in the future, I don't think that would technically result in her requiring special issuances forever. Those are reserved for people with "psychosis, bipolar disorder, repeated acts of self-harm or severe personality disorders" IIRC. On the other hand, I could totally see an AME interpreting it that way, but hopefully not all of them. And, of course, the disclaimer is I'm not an AME, but I know we have couple here somewhere?

Here is a flush mount horizontal picture. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The pilot is an acquaintance of mine and belongs to the same flying group I do in LA. He has facial injuries requiring surgery yesterday but recovery should go well No info on what caused the crash I know the area well as I have flown out of there for over 50 years. Interesting airport history especially back half a century ago. He and the police officers are very lucky Quick decisions by the officers saved his life.

I talked to @Hans in Denver yesterday. Meet the nicest folks on MS.

SWTA is not in San Marcos, they moved to Smithville a few years back. But yes the people I had look at the brakes were just asked to bleed the brakes since they were soft. There definitely was air in the system, so that was one issue. My fault for being too specific - I should have said look over the brakes. Brian Kendrick (who is usually in San Marcos) stopped by and looked at it last Friday and within a minute he caught the backwards pad. I had asked him to look at it from day one but he finally had a day open up.

Similar thing, low voltage, happened to me leaving KORL. The TWR asked if I wanted to declare and I told them yes without even thinking about it. I was at pattern altitude when it happened. I turned cross wind flew the pattern and landed without incident to a parade of fire trucks. Some minor paperwork, one ring lug and an hour later I was on my way. One note though, I did get a little distracted on final still trying to diagnose the problem instead of focusing on flying the plane and the landing.

This was yesterday. Based on the radiosonde observation (RAOB) out of Nashville, the temperature was closer to -27°C, but still pretty darn cold. This was in an area of dissipating convection which certainly explains the icing down to much colder temps.

I think we worry too much about this sort of stuff. I fly, land, taxi to the pump, shut down, fill up, start up, taxi to the hangar, shut down and put the airplane away. I see absolutely no harm in that except for highly theoretical conjecture unsupported by any actual data. Skip

As @Niko182 pointed out, Wilmar is now Weep No More LLC. Website is Weep No More (weepnomorellc.com)

i have to say this feature is REALLY F******** AMAZING

Hello all, I'm new here to Mooney space. Just signed up for MAPA too. As of yesterday I'm also the new owner of a Mooney M20J and well I'm new to aircraft ownership. Currently a PP working on my Instrument. I'm based out of the Houston Texas area and would love to meet other Mooney owners in the area. Is there a houston area Mooney group? Also welcome any advice.

The pressure put on the rings during this type of flush is far less than during normal operation of the engine. Normal (proper) procedure is to flush the oil and put in fresh, i.e., do a a complete oil change, after a ring flush for the reasons you mention. Done this way there really is much less risk than pulling a cylinder. If the rings are stuck due to sludge/deposits/coking/whatever and a flush cleans it up and restores compression and function, I don't see any reason to not call that a successful repair. Since it is also a lot cheaper and easier than pulling a cylinder, it would seem to me to be a preferred method to try before resorting to pulling a cylinder. There are all kinds of tricks to do cylinder maintenance in-place, many of which are described in the engine manuals. Lapping valves, changing valve train parts, etc., etc., all have time-proven methods to be done in-place without pulling the cylinder. A ring flush seems less complex than most to me.

Which side did you take it out from? Taking it out from the fuel line side helps prevent it from trailing filtered particles into the servo during removal. The RSA-5 Service Manual says that the fuel line union nut should be torqued to 25-50 in-lbs (Section 2-7 of the RSA-5 manual). The manual I have doesn't provide relevant torque values beyond that.

Way to go Charles! We got our M20C when our daughter was born… Used as a chariot to visit her grandparents… Its only been 22 years since then…. Enjoy! -a-

So the train suffered a plane strike ....

Not heavy, but one can imagine it's easy for the airframe to get hung up on things that stick out of the ground

That’s not a real heavy airplane they coulda just pushed it off no? Either way. He’s safe. What a story. Can you imagine? What are the odds you crash a plane and get hit by a train in the same day!?

On POA (medical topics forum), Dr. Chien answers questions like these, check this out: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/add-questions.85996/#post-1892265

Mooney doesn't own the plane, so they have no control over repairs. They can make a recommendation, but you are also free to use a DER. The 10% loss of material allowance is not even a Mooney-specific thing, it's from the FAA's AC43-13 repair guidance manual. The key is to find out if the part has enough solid material left to make a repair possible. And then decide which way to go. FAA DER directory below. You are looking for a structures DER. The MSC should be able to recommend one they've worked with before. Shops use DER's all the time for adding antennas onto pressurized planes, for example. https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/designee_types/media/derdirectory.pdf

No Bob, this is me. You called 1 time in the middle of the holiday season and I am sorry if I haven't responded yet. I am still catching up. I will not address this here and I am always happy to help folks out, especially you. We have been friends for a long time and when you needed me after your prop strike, I was there for you. For you to blast anyone like this is not ok and completely counterproductive. Further, it is not required that the Configuration Sheets get supplied to the owners. I would love to help you out, but this is not ok to make your accusations and rants like this that are unsubstantiated.

Good Morning! Give Lynn (828.216.6482) or myself (Tamara 828.216.5955) a call or text and let us know what you need. We’ll do whatever we can for you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I told an old DPE friend that I'd bought a Mooney she said, "You have to do a little snake dance to get down into one, but they're pretty good airplanes."

It turns out… Mooneys were way ahead of their time… A 60s Chevy… the mechanic can stand next to the engine while he changes the plugs…. With all of the excess space available… A Chevy today… has covers at the top and the bottom of the engine, similar to the dog house and cowling…. Everything is much tighter… Chevy supplies all kinds of specialized tools to work on their cars… Mooneys, every now and then use a cut off wrench or crows foot wrench… Some myths will die easier than others… Mooneys are no longer harder to work on… Best regards, -a-

That would have been useful information to include in your previous post.

Steve, The double puck Brakes, which is in a separate Mooney drawing, is the reason for requiring the new gear doors. The drawing is not available on the internet. But it also calls for the new trusses because the double puck brakes require a larger brake torque plate that attaches to the gear trusses. You’re right though, the SB makes no reference to the brake system drawing that adds the double puck brakes that became standard with the newer Bravo’s and all long bodies and M20K Encore’s going forward. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Physicist Richard Feynman described the scientific method as a two step process: Guess at a solution and then prove or disprove it by experiment. The problem with all these supposed causes of cam problems that we hear and read about is that they are just guesses that have never been validated. After they get repeated long enough they become "Old Wives Tales" -- a term I believe was first applied to aviation beliefs by Randy Sohn and popularized by John Deakin. I'm not pointing any fingers: I have believed a lot of things over the years that have turned out not to be true, and I probably still believe things that aren't true. While I have no firsthand knowledge, I believe it reasonable to assume that Lycoming knows more about its engines than anyone outside the company. Besides seeing engines that come back for overhaul and rebuild, Lycoming has all the design and test data and a failure analysis lab. The fact that Lycoming changed the lifter design tells me that they knew something needed fixing. The change to roller tappets required redesigning the case haves to accept them as well as the tappets themselves and probably a ton of testing. Changes like this are very expensive and not undertaken without good reason. Skip

WARNING!!! Heretical opinion follows: I think a lot of this 'moisture'/acid start-up/shut-down procedure thing falls into OWT territory. Frankly, the important thing, IMHO, is to just fly frequently for close to an hour. If you do that, I don't think you'll have corrosion issues. I don't think twice about starting up just to taxi over to the pumps and back; I sure as hell wouldn't tow the plane there and back over this issue!! /heretical opinion off

I go back and forth between kpoc and Miami where I was based at X51. I need to go there in a few weeks, so it’s not a big deal.

Welcome! You have found the best source of Mooney information on the internet. I'm based at IWS and there is a Saturday morning pilot crew who meets there if you are seeking other pilots in Houston to socialize with. There are a few Mooney drivers and former Mooney drivers in the group. Where are you based? -Geoff

PIREP - Just finished my annual at Coast Air Center at MGY, and they did a remarkable job. Very thorough and professional! Very good at diagnostic, figuring out things baffling to other centers. Hope they find a pilot able to fly all Mooneys for test flights, and get their avionics division up and running (they're working on it) and it truly might become a one stop service center of excellence. Recommended!

It looks like those little sneaky hangar elves are back at it again. This time it’s for a six pack panel upgrade! Since there is hardly any information online regarding this subject, I decided to put it out there for all the other little hangar elves. I know some of the avionics are not the latest and greatest, but this is an M20C model and with the money I am saving with the purchase as well as the DIY install (Under an AI/Avionics Engineer/EE, etc…). When upgrading the panel I had 3 options: Mooney Land- $9k Lasar- Around $300 is, plus 60 hrs in mounting the panel (according to a write-up online). DIY- Around $300 with the aluminum and band saw that I had to purchase. Basically the band saw is free by DIY. I decided to go the DIY route. Here are the instructions: Take the old shotgun panel and place over the aluminum. Drill out 1 mounting hole and put a nut and bolt through it to hold it into place. Then drill the second hole, put a nut and bolt through it to hold it into place. With the panel bolted and facing downwards onto the blank aluminum, trace the outline of the old panel onto the new and drill out the remaining mounting holes. On the 2 vertical holes, only drill the top hole. On the bottom of the panel, you are going to want to extend it around ¼”, but you do not want to extend the yoke cut. So use a washer that has about a ¼ space on it and stick the sharpie in the middle to trace the bottom, stopping at the yoke cut. Use a band saw to rough cut the panel out. Use a disc sander to sand the aluminum until the trace lines disappear. Here is the big secret that will save you a ton of time with the mounting of the new panel. Just remove the bottom shock mounts and that panel will mount up perfectly at the right angle. Shock mounts are no longer necessary on panel installs. You can call your local avionics shop to confirm. Replace the bottom shock mounts with simple nut and bolt (brass from aircraft spruce) and leave the middle and top shock mounts intact. For that one mount that has 2 vertical screws, cut the bottom of it off to where you only use the top screw and grind it down around 1/4 “ around the hole. This will give you the needed room to do a six pack configuration. Most of the weight of the panel will be supported by the lower bolts and the top mounts are there to push the panel out for the angle. Now it looks like you solved the mounting issue and saved 60 hrs in the process! Now, you have the side cover to deal with. Just get 2” angle, measure it out, drill 2 mounting screws, cut to fit and call it a day. Now here the dirty little secret to make the 6 pack fit. You can go 1/2 “above the yoke cut and 1/2'” all the way to the right. You will notice the right 4 instruments are offset a little, this is to give room for the yoke. Hope this little write up will save someone some time and money with the new panel!