Leaderboard

So I could be smiling like this!!!!!! For a little while I’ll be the newest Instrument Rated pilot:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just a humble observation. Your opinions REALLY have more to do with “icing” than the TKS System, maybe even “icing in a GA plane”. I respect that, but probably a discussion under a different topic. It’s pretty clear you have no experience with TKS on a Mooney. ALL TKS systems have tail deice. Knowledge of the system would be nice when commenting. Secondly, you’re 10 minutes late if you’re turning on a TKS system AFTER encountering icing conditions. The system works 10 times better wetted out BEFORE icing conditions are encountered than trying to deice after building ice. As far as effectiveness, our Mercy Flight organization has numerous active AND retired airline pilots. Without exception, every one of them feels our SE Bonanza is SAFER in icing than our “boots equipped” twin. Absence “real world” experience with TKS, maybe a little more discretion and system knowledge would be appropriate before knocking it’s capabilities. And lastly, if you’ve built 1” to 2” of ice on an airplane, seems you pushed your equipment well beyond its abilities, which falls back to my earlier post: maybe a little better flight planning or decision making would have avoided that situation. In 2.5k hours flying with TKS protection, I’ve never built ANY ice on protected surfaces unless “I screwed up” and, even then, never seen ice at anywhere near that level (probably because of my flight planning). Affording a “heated deice system” is not an option for Mooney pilots or we would be flying in those planes. Tom

So, we decided due to weather, First Flight was the way to go! Tangiers was LIFR. Slightly bumpy on the way there with some time through clouds which gave us a chance to mention @carusoam insight on aerobatic pilot breakfast choices. On the way back we watched the sunset through the clouds before landing back at KHEF. It's amazing to experience that first GA flight again through the eyes and smiles of children!

Doing a flight review today for a guy in a Mooney 231 and saw this big boy on the ramp.

@ShermAv8tor I just may know someone that will soon have everything you need to do this conversion, the switches, wiring, brackets, pushrods, actuator, emergency gear crank, everything! I’m just waiting for a few more parts to arrive and then I’ll have everything I need to convert my F back to J bar. All my electric gear parts will be for sale soon!

ran across this looking for something else, thought it might be useful. there are better videos on the subject but this was aircraft related

If I pulled on the heat knob until I was warm on a mid February day I’d pull it clean out of the panel. I really need to move south...

With the exception of the G1000, you are precisely describing the Diamond DA40XLT, current MSRP approximately $400,000. manufacturing costs are but a fraction of the total cost to the manufacturer. Have a look at an aircraft maintenance manual. Contemplate the cost to produce that. Certification costs must be recovered over a few hundred airframes per year, and a wildly optimistic estimate to certify a new aircraft would be $75 million. additionally, with cheap money, the sticker price of the plane is less important than you might think. That extra $200,000 for the DA40 vs the hypothetical composite M20 is less than half the TCO of a new plane. Ditch G1000NXI and you could probably shave another $50,000 off the cost of the Diamond. Cirrus has created demand and drawn new people into the hobby. Perhaps Mooney should concentrate on producing a more capable and useful aircraft to peel some of them off. -DE

When I bought my C, I looked here for advice. After that, I started looking for the nicest example I could find. I found a very very good one just under 50k almost 2 years ago. I had a PPI done. I went and flew the plane. It really was everything it was advertised as. In almost 2 years, I've had to scrub only 3 flights. One because a freshly overhauled magneto self destructed, one because somehow the glass fell out of the rpm/MP gauge, and one because the throttle cable broke. I've put almost 500 hours on my plane in under 2 years. The market for C's seems to be topped at around 60k right now, with most really nice examples in the 50k range. Spend the extra 20k on a really nice plane with all the bells and whistles, but still put aside 10k for repairs. There always will be some needed. I almost guarantee that you will spend less this way than buying the cheapest plane you can find. I just looked. 269 flights in C. 3 scrubs. 98.8% dispatch rate

Wow! No engine but still has a drip pad . . . The tail outside looks neat (but different), but I don't understand having the rest of the plane inside . . . . .

X2 It is vital to wet the wings before ice has accumulated. If I think I need it I prime it on the taxi out

Agree with @Yooper Rocketman about being “10 minutes late.” TKS is pretty effective, but it does take time to get the wings and tail wet.

keep looking.....Take it from me,,you can easily spend another 30k-50k on this plane......you said you want it to travel with so you need to be close to 100% dispatch reliability. I enjoy that comfort but it cost me 28k for my plane and then another 50+ to make it safe and enjoyable and up to date, ADS etc etc all ADs etc etc all SB's etc etc...all mostly done at a MSC etc etc. but at nearly 80k into the plane I am still way under what a later model mooney would cost me because I would still have to put 10s of thousands into anything I would buy that would be newer.... Good luck in your search

Another new guy that posts a question and then can't be bothered to check back 36 hours later. -and says he found a 63 M20C but posts under Modern Mooney Discussion -and then warns us not to give opinions but only post if we can help him.

interesting thread.... I have a couple pennies to toss in. If I were in OP's position I would likely be OK with having the inadvertent Icing TKS. For starters and most importantly, going into known icing in a SE aircraft is not something I would want to do, TKS or No. Secondly, known icing is not (to my understanding), possible icing conditions. In other words, nothing says you cant go into freezing temps with visible moisture. These conditions do not always produce ice and actually frequently do not. according to the aim, known icing is "atmospheric conditions which the formation of ice is observed or detected in flight".... SO if you start getting ice, turn on your TKS and then get out of it! Also, if you know there are possible icing conditions ahead, ask the controller if there are any PIREPS for icing on your route. If there is, avoid it. So to me anyhow, the difference in how I would operate 2 aircraft, 1 with FIKI and one without is zero.

The 530W is processor limited and can only display 8 targets in ABSOLUTE mode. The vector lines coming out of the target will be white and not green, which differentiates Absolute from TargetTrend.

I thought he upgraded his J to a K and signed on under a new name???

Based on the previous posts, my guess is it is on the airplane someplace. [emoji2957] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not enough paper to print it on and not enough gigabytes to do an online calendar. You’ll just need to enjoy those limited opportunities when they present themselves. [emoji38] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I would say the lower the budget, the more careful one must be. The broker is correct that it's easy for a $30K airplane to have more than $30K worth of problems. I have a list of over 10 situations where someone bought a cheap Mooney only to spend close to, or over the purchase price just to get it airworthy. The problem here is that fixing things costs the same whether on a $30K M20C or a $120K M20J. If the tanks are leaking, the repair costs the same, if the landing gear pucks have to be replaced, it's the same cost, if the gear trusses are rusted and have to be replaced, the same costs. Avionics cost the same whether it goes in an M20C or an M20J. The difference is that spending $30K to improve a $120K J is reasonable. Doing the same for a $30K M20C doesn't make economic sense. Especially since $50K would probably buy a turn-key, well maintained, and upgraded M20C. I would not spend $30K on an airplane without having a very thorough PPI done by a shop that knows what they're doing with Mooney PPI's. And that's probably an MSC. Feel free to post the link to the plane. Chances are, someone here knows of it.

I spent the last 30 days of flying looking like this..... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The correct direction to be converting.

The goal in my mind would be to increase reliability more so than decrease weight. Plus the vacuum AI is the KI256 which is very expensive to keep working.

Congrat's! Now you've earned your certificate to continue learning in the IFR system. File often!!

On my 67 F the fuel selector lamp is on the same circuit as the panel lights.

Was a new PA46 ever within reach of “most GA folks?” In 1984 a new Piper Malibu sold for about $330,000. That’s about $800,000 in 2019 bucks.

This has great simulator potential.

that's for those cold winter days/nights where you want to fly, but do not want to leave the house. Brian

@Wrench978 I don't know anything about this one, but it is here on MS and seems to fit within your price range, although at the top end. Plus, it appears to be in Florida, so getting to see it would not be as difficult. I am sure others will join in for comments.

All one has to do is to ask is ... do you feel lucky?

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I turn on my non-FIKI TKS almost every time I turn on my pitot heat. And I lead that an estimated 5-10 minutes prior to entering an area of concern (almost always occurs on descent with worse than forecast weather/cloud deck). While there is a "de-ice" switch position, I find it most useful for wetting out the panels more quickly during preflight. I don't count on it being able to overcome accumulated ice. Cheers, Rick

Good job! Who would have figured? Fuel sealant actually seals fuel.

Separated by less than a second

I also think this seal might be a little too thin in places and/or my door on my M20R has a larger gap than it is supposed to. I didn't have a buzz but I did have a leak after installation. I wouldn't put a bead of silicone on anything. That sounds like a mess and/or way too accidentally glue your door shut. Something like this might help: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078H8Y95X/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These detectors are great....they always are within a few numbers of each other......I have one to check the checker...anyone have a carbon dioxide detector? is it needed?

ohh, my apologies, I didn't realize that. I will remove it from the post. This however doesn't change my .02 on the matter. If I am in ice in anything that doesn't have heated edges, I am not happy. I have experienced icing that has completely overwhelmed anti icing and deicing equipment and in a fraction of a second put 1-2 inches of ice on the aircraft and got multiple hits. One of the few times I have been truly scared in an aircraft. That is just my opinion, nothing more.

While you're spending money replacing the 3 engine controls - throttle, mixture, prop - with new McFarlane will be only 1 AMU. Yours appear to be original which means they're far beyond "TBO". We've had more than one tale told here about a throttle that failed in flight. Controlling air speed to land with throttle wide open using mixture and prop... too exciting?

Even if you could mass produce, the market isn't there. You're not the first to think of this. If it was that easy it would have been done by now. All of the parts and the facilities they are produced in need to certified and inspected by the FAA along the way. The Chinese bought Cirrus over 8 years ago, they haven't found a way. Still manufactured in Grand Forks, ND and Duluth, MN. Delivered in Tennessee and hiring at all three locations.

100% understand. I was't trying to come across as harsh; just concerned that you might be looking at low-end planes because money was tight. Far better to pay $10-$15K more for a plane, than spend the first year or so putting that amount in to bring a low-end plane up to snuff. While the same amount of money in the end, the second method would be far more aggravating.

Can you be the 12 year old for me and figure out the differences in the Garmin “paks”? I ended up talking to someone at Garmin to figure out the a la carte was cheaper! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have two GTN750s. Single point of failure is not an option. I don’t have to work very hard to explain how that is better than a couple of teensy-display 650s. Let alone a couple of 430s with their awful push-push-twist-twist user interface. Agree there are cheaper ways to get from A to B. SouthWest Airlines to name one.

Thread drift . . . . Speaking of Laguna Seca and Superbikes and MotoGp. A friend of mine, Ruben Xaus, raced Superbike and MotoGP. I got to go out to Laguna Seca a couple times to see him race. Later I got to take him up in a Cessna I had at the time. He got a taste for General Aviation and later on back in Spain ended up getting his private license.

I know but it's online and online is always better with a slight theatrical tension to keep the readers engaged.

Paul, thanks for responding. I’ll offer one last thought here - which doesn’t apply only to this topic but to so many I see. It’s not directed at you personally. It’s unfortunate that when the smartest groups of real experts get together and discuss advanced theory - of any topic - in front of others that are learners who look up to them, that many of the learners will take all they say as blind fact and propagate it as such. This is analogous to LOP and that continued false narrative. Those same “Experts” have told us for years that airplanes “will fall out of the sky” for misuse of the red knob and many “learners” who are very good AP’s and / or owners otherwise just blindly believe it to be true and propagate it. If I were in that seminar and heard someone use the words “brought down an airplane” I would be questioning them as to why I was part of the chosen few to get to hear this? I’d be asking why an airplane falls out of the sky with concrete evidence of the reason and there is NO AD or mandatory service advice? I’d be shocked to have heard this and more so appalled that nothing was being done about it! Weren’t you? I’m a learner. I’d want to know specifically what galley in the oil circuit got plugged? Why didn’t the screen catch this? How long was the engine running before the problem happened? What part of the engine failed catastrophically due to lack of oil? My last question would be “hey guys, who else knows about this besides us in this special seminar?” I’d be worried then and I am now. You seem to agree that this technique if carefully performed has some merit. I do as well. You may choose not to do it, but factually the technique isn’t flawed. I maintain that if Continental as an entity viewed this as a problem that could be a liability issue in any way shape or form we see it in red ink. (They for sure have a history of overreaction.) Now that you have explained the source and there is an apparent lack of any published data, my thesis is that some expert - one time - saw a tear down that had a piece of filter element stuck in some oil galley - which contributed to but did not cause the failure. They back traced it to a guy who punched a huge hole halfway through the filter with a tire iron and blew it out into the engine with 200 psi of dirty shop air. (Exaggeration for effect, hoping for a bit of levity.) But I learned something even more important from this Paul. I am not going to offer any advice here any longer. Not because I don’t think that my advice is solid but more so because my advice is not complete. If I wanted to share this properly I should have written it up in the format of a procedure document, with specific steps and cautions as one would expect to see. It’s very real that someone here could actually try this and create a problem for themselves because they don’t understand the theory and construction of the oil filter well enough. But until proven otherwise I also think the story you heard in the seminar was just as incomplete, likely exaggerated a bit and certainly not considered a problem by Continental as a company. I will be taking your advice and contacting them this week to try to source the incident you wrote about. Because if this is true, we need this information available to the aviation public, not just those lucky enough to go to a special seminar. Do you agree? Thanks for the great opportunity to share thoughts. Dave Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know he was flying charters, maybe things picked up and he just doesn’t have the time. I did notice José “Pee Venturi” hasn’t even been on for a while since his little episode. And we all know where Peter Garmin is. Sitting out front of the Bendix King warehouse watching for the KI-300 to begin shipping. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Alex If i was in your shoes i would replace the the 2 rows of mortiz engine gauges and Shadin display with the EDM 900 mounted right there. Your avionics shop can cut a plate to cover the removed equipment and mount the EDM at low cost. Once painted to match it will look fine. A year or two later when ready for more extensive changes you can get a new panel cut for an entirely clean slate design. Even with the EDM, I kept redundant EI MAP and RPM gauges, so I would keep your existing ones for now. Here is how I did mine and I think horizontal mount as some benefits assuming it will fit that way - but you have the portrait option if needed to. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Professor, @donkaye unquestionably has the best panel ever installed in a Mooney, (including the new Ultras rolling out of the factory). And there certainly is something to be said for the turn key nature of a single vendor panel. But it's not the only way. My panel was done for less than 25% of the cost of Don's. I only have two Garmin units in the airplane, a G5 and a GDL69a. Everything else is Aspen, Avidyne, BendixKing, PSEngineering, JPI, NavWorx, etc, etc. But everything talks to everything. Integration was simple as all these different vendors adhere to the same standards for communication. Also they all take my phone calls when I have a question. Garmin won't talk to me, but want me to talk to the avionics shop. The IFD540 and the PMA450b were installed by me. I just backed out the old Garmin box and slid in the new modern unit and done. That saved a few thousand dollars right there. Avidyne is always running specials that include a free transponder/ADS-B if you buy their GPS. Meaning I didn't spend any $$$ on a new transponder or ADS-B in and out. I get Traffic, Weather, and SiriusXM on the IFD540 along with Synthetic Vision, Bluetooth and Wifi, all at no charge and no extra boxes to install. (The free SiriusXM is an anomaly) My panel isn't as nice as Don's. But it will fly a full coupled approach to minimums, and has nearly all the other features as well. The transponder, ADS-B in/out, and other stuff is in the tail with the IFD540 running as the head unit. It makes for a clean uncluttered panel. There are quite a few members on this forum who can speak to the simple utility but full feature list, of this panel. Just another option to consider.

What’s IBM got to do with this? Tom

Dude, this is the BEST frickin'' deal I've ever seen! Jump all over it. I'd say good luck, but you've already got that!

I like the pic of Alcatraz. Is the SF area difficult to fly?