Mooney down... KC, MO

[John Pleisse]

Anybody know anything?

[Bob_Belville]

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/1d8115513f434b5eb832af4ff343c6ad/MO--KC-Small-Plane-Crashes

[Bob_Belville]

Several pics, no tail #.

 

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2013/08/mooney-man-and-woman-confirmed-dead-in.html

[Bob_Belville]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9201R

[jetdriven]

Looks like another runway turnback that didnt make it. Hopefully this convinces a few more people that its a terrible idea.

 

Looks like the angle of impact was nearly vertical which says something, stall/spin.

[Alan Fox]

78 J model , lloks like it was purchased in January this year...

[mooneygirl]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those lost.  Very very sad.

[omega708]

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those lost.  Very very sad.

Same here.  Stay safe out there...

[carusoam]

Prayers...

-a-

[WardHolbrook]

Looks like another runway turnback that didnt make it. Hopefully this convinces a few more people that its a terrible idea.

 

Looks like the angle of impact was nearly vertical which says something, stall/spin.

Yes, that's indeed what it looks like. Class, repeat after me... If the engine quits right after takeoff, making a 180+ degree turn to get back to the runway probably isn't the best plan. The accident record shows that it seldom is.   

[aerobat95]

That sucks....as tempting as it may seem going straight ahead is probably the best course of action.  For me if the engine quits the plane belongs to the insurance company.......at that point I just want to be able to walk away and not hurt anyone on the ground.

[Earl]

Very sad news.  Every time I take off I literally say to myself, "If the engine quits look a little left and right and find the best place to put it down.  I am not turning back to the airport".  I even tell passengers that during the pre-flight briefing.  I tell them not to even ask and plan to crack the door open so we can get out quickly. 

 

I've seen the video of the guy making that turn, heard the stall horn when he did and all I can say is when you look at the stats he was very lucky and the odds of making it work are very much against you.  As someone said above, its the insurance company's plane now.  I just want to get myself and my passengers out alive.

[Oscar Avalle]

I agree, the 180 is not an option. The probabilities of walking away after a 180 are very slim... my thoughts and prayers are with the people in the plane...

[orionflt]

There are a couple of mooney owners on my field and we fly with each other and practice different emergencies. One of the things we practice is engine out on take off, we have learned that you can safely make a 180 back to our field fro 4-500 ft AGL and if you do everything correctly you are a little high as you cross the numbers. But that being said we also found if you mess up any part of the turn you have no where to go, so we brief if we loose an engine on take off we land straight ahead. We know the temptation of trying to make it back and save the plane will be there but by practicing the different senerios we know what the safest course of action is. It is sad to hear of any accident, especially one with loss of life, my prayers are with the families and I hope the rest of us learn from their mistakes.

Brian

[flight2000]

And if they had gone straight ahead into the warehouse district, ya'll would be questioning why they didn't turn...

 

Just curious where's the best point to shoot for off the end of RWY 19?  Oh, there isn't one....that departure scares the crap out of me because of this scenario.  I never use an intersection departure from K, which is what tower wants to give you from the west side of the field.  Use the full runway and it becomes a little more manageable to the point of being at least 1,000 agl before crossing the river.  More time, more options...

 

I agree with Bryon that it appears they tried to turn back, but if anything should have been shooting for the field and not the runway.  Straight ahead into the river or warehouse complex isn't exactly my idea of a great place to go.  The NTSB will figure it out.

 

God speed to the pilot and passenger.

 

Brian

[Alan Fox]

And if they had gone straight ahead into the warehouse district, ya'll would be questioning why they didn't turn...

 

Just curious where's the best point to shoot for off the end of RWY 19?  Oh, there isn't one....that departure scares the crap out of me because of this scenario.  I never use an intersection departure from K, which is what tower wants to give you from the west side of the field.  Use the full runway and it becomes a little more manageable to the point of being at least 1,000 agl before crossing the river.  More time, more options...

 

I agree with Bryon that it appears they tried to turn back, but if anything should have been shooting for the field and not the runway.  Straight ahead into the river or warehouse complex isn't exactly my idea of a great place to go.  The NTSB will figure it out.

 

God speed to the pilot and passenger.

 

Brian

I will take a river any time....

[aviatoreb]

Very sad news.  Every time I take off I literally say to myself, "If the engine quits look a little left and right and find the best place to put it down.  I am not turning back to the airport".  I even tell passengers that during the pre-flight briefing.  I tell them not to even ask and plan to crack the door open so we can get out quickly. 

 

I've seen the video of the guy making that turn, heard the stall horn when he did and all I can say is when you look at the stats he was very lucky and the odds of making it work are very much against you.  As someone said above, its the insurance company's plane now.  I just want to get myself and my passengers out alive.

 

Earl, I commend your resolve, and I agree completely with the idea - I say something similar inside my head before every take off.  But I am not inclined to say it out loud in the presence of non-pilot passengers.  Seems like it may be very scary to them for a low probability event, which I should be able to handle by going straight ahead and handle whether or not they say to turn back.

 

I saw that mooney turn back video too - I was really surprised the aopa posted that video on their site because it was the unlikely and dangerous case where someone actually did make it - they should have posted a companion video of a few stall spins and aftermath to sober people and perhaps some asf discussion of the statistics of the maneuver.

[flight2000]

I will take a river any time....

 

Normally I would say the same, but knowing how the Missouri River runs at that point (deep and fast), I'd still take my chances with the grassy area...I have the Missouri on both ends of the runway at Sherman AAF and time after time, every CFI/local pilot I talk to says to stay out of the river at all costs.  If you go in, they may never find you. 

 

I guess that's really the point I was trying to make with my earlier rant.  Every situation requires planning and analysis.  Being at the home drome will allow you to make better situational decisions based on your understanding of the area, but new airports require a bit more energy and thought.  Simply saying I will do X if Y happens, no matter what, can be just as bad. 

 

Brian

[FlyDave]

Good link on Don Kaye's web site for pre-takoff mantra:

 

http://www.donkaye.com/donkaye.com/Single_Engine_Preflight_Briefing.html

[flyboy0681]

The "impossible turn" is called that for a reason.

[RocketAviator]

Sad, prayers for their families.

[thinwing]

Damn..there has been too many of these engine quit/180 turnback stall spin accidents of late...including an ultralight accident at my local model flying field...only thing to learn from others...nose down and fly it all the way to impact...

[bumper]

Not trying to encourage anyone to try a turn back, but an impossible turn turns into a doable option depending on several factors, not the least of which is pilot skill and training.

 

Flying ultralights in the early days conditions one to near instantly get the stick forward upon power failure. 2-stroke power failures were common, while kinetic energy and penetration were far less so. Speed decays so rapidly, the a moments delay means you are no longer flying.  Glider training is an excellent way to master energy management - - besides being a lot of fun, getting a glider rating can't help but make one a better pilot, especially when Mr. Motor gets quiet.

 

bumper

[flyboy0681]

Not trying to encourage anyone to try a turn back, but an impossible turn turns into a doable option depending on several factors, not the least of which is pilot skill and training.

 

I think by definition the Impossible Turn means that those factors are not present yet the pilot attempts to do it anyway.

[bumper]

I think by definition the Impossible Turn means that those factors are not present yet the pilot attempts to do it anyway.

 

And I think you're right.