any of you ever thought about flying a helicopter?

[bumper]

 Any transmission problem are catastrophic ... if you get my meaning. Number one killer of helicopter pilots ...? .

October 2, 1973, swing shift, the watch captain told us they needed a volunteer as the regular observer was sick. This was an almost unheard of opportunity to fly in Argus, the call sign for our police helicopter. There hands shot up, mine included. I was disappointed when Dave Guider was chosen as I'd never been in a helicopter and really wanted to go. Wendell Troyer was the pilot.

 

Later that night, Argus went down in East Oakland while responding to a robbery downtown. The post crash fire was so intense it cooked off the rounds in their guns. We at first thought that they were shot down by a sniper, as Troyer had a bullet wound to the head, though later it was announced the helicopter's transmission failed.

 

I dodged fate that night.

 

bumper

[Gone]

In 1988, just one year after getting my PPL in Piper Commuters (140 HP version of a Cherokee), I deployed to a warm part of the world.  During a repositioning recce (y'all call that a recon) in a Sea King (Sikorsky SH-3, with the Canadian designation of CH-124) I was dangling my legs out of the hatch on the starboard side (with the safety harness on!!!) when the aircraft commander asked if I wanted to try flying it, given that I was now a pilot. Keep in mind that was in the Signal Corps, at part of the Army, not the Airforce (with all its pilots) or the Navy (who sort of managed this bird and its crew) so this crew thought it would be fun to see what the army guy could do.

 

I was up for it and got strapped into the left seat.  First lesson, Aircraft Commander sits in the right seat of these unnatural beasts - unlike us.

 

"Take the cyclic."  So I did.  Second lesson.  THESE ARE VERY SENSITIVE!!  Third lesson.  Flying a helicopter is like trying to balance on the top of a beachball.

 

OK, somewhat getting the hang of it and not really killing the five of us.  

 

"OK, I am going to turn off the automatic coordination system."  Fourth lesson.  It is hard trying to stand on top of a beachball without some automated support.

 

"OK, how about we turn off the hydraulic assist for the controls." Fifth lesson.  It is even tougher trying to stand on top of that beachball when your control inputs require lots of armstrong work.

 

25 minutes.  That was all they could give me and it was quite a workout.  

 

We landed at cute little airport that looked like a postage stamp from 3 miles out, with wide lines painted around all four sides (1500' runway).

 

I appreciate these guys putting it down on top of the bear claw on a pitching deck in Force 6 with Sea State 5 all the better.  Takes a LOT of practice to get it right.

[Guest]

In my experience when the air flows down from above the pilot as opposed to blowing in his face, the pilot changes and looses common sense and think they are invincible.

A few years ago we had an R22 crash into a drainage pond beside my shop, sadly the instructor died and the student was badly injured. It seems the gliding performance of a low and slow flying helicopter is only slightly better than a smooth brick. I flew in one once but have no desire to try it again.

Clarence

[bumper]

I also flew a few times in a friends R-22, then in his Eurocopter EC120B when he stepped up. He is a cautious and careful pilot, still, I never acquired the feeling of trust and comfort with the machine that is so easy to find in fixed wing like the Mooney. Once we were both flying to the $1000 burger and he left a few minutes before me. As I caught up, I climbed a bit so I could dive on him (in level flight of course!) to accentuate the speed difference as I blew past him. His top speed was 120 and I was probabably doing 180. Keyed the mike and said, "I see your problem, none of your propellers are working to pull you in the right direction".

 

He wouldn't let me fly in a hover (I'd only flown early RC helis), but did in cruise. Cyclic hand resting on the leg, sensitive but not at all difficult, at least for straight and level and gentle turns.

 

My favorite military definition of a helicopter: "A mass of fatigued metal, rotating around an oil leak".

 

Lost two friends, one in a Rotorway - witnesses said he had slowed and then just nosed over from 50 feet, exploding in flame. The other in an R-44 was a bit of a hot dog (previously crashed his R-22), though I'm uncertain that had anything to do with the fatal crash. He was re-positioning from the airport to his house on the lee side of the Carson Range (Sierra), half way up the mountain and above where I live. Witnesses heard a bang and saw falling pieces. Boom strike. There was rotor turbulence which was generally subsiding from much stronger mountain wave the day before. Under those conditions I won't even try flying over my house in fixed wing as the gusts can easily exceed 50 knots vertical or horizontal.  

 

bumper

[Hank]

Like many, I have thought about it. Then I spoke briefly to a [former?] RW instructor who lives near me and used to fly to his house. To fly ~2/3 Mooney C speed, fuel flow is about 3X. That was discouraging. Then add in short range [up to 200 nm], heavy maintenance all the time and insurance . . . There went my dream/fantasy of commuting to the airport . . .

 

Dad flew big choppers in the Marines years ago, he said it's constant work with both hands and both feet. He also rode 3 to the ground with various issues, including one autorotation into the sea oats on a sand dune when the tail rotor departed at 500 feet.

 

No thank you. Maybe once or twice, but the spray-painted bubble canopy models I see giving 10-minute tourist rides at the beach, the state fair and in the mountains [Gatlinburg, etc], not a chance they'll get me aboard. Jet Ranger? Sure, take me up, just don't make me buy the fuel.

[carusoam]

The missing part...

You can't legally land them in your own backyard. Unless your backyard is somewhat special....?

Best regards,

-a-

[BigTex]

Like any kind of flying.  You have to define your mission to determine what best fits.  Helicopters are great for certain types of missions like working large ranches but for the type of flying we as Mooney pilots do, not so much.

[Hank]

The missing part...

You can't legally land them in your own backyard. Unless your backyard is somewhat special....?

Best regards,

-a-

 

You can when you live in the country! 

 

My house is 1/4 mile off the highway, with a large open field beside it. But then again, it's for sale now. Good thing I don't have that little 2-place piston chopper, it might not fit into the house I buy here.

[hobbit64]

RW flying is not difficult or exceptional.  Like some one else said, they're like a Bike vs. Car.  You never stop working.  Similar to the taxiing a Tail dragger.

Hovering comes with practice.  Most folks I knew 'Broke The Code' and it just happened one day.  You struggle for a while and then it just happens and voila!

I've made money flying RW on and off for 15 years.  It is by far my favorite and chosen form of monetary acquisition. 

 

I would never even entertain owning one. If I was independently wealthy (read Lotto winner), I would rent one.  Come to think of it, I'd just keep flying RW for a living and get my fix that way.

 

They way I view the world: If I want to 'zoom in' and look at something close in - RW.  If I need to get somewhere with a long concrete strip-FW. If someone needs to be dropped off (or picked up) in a field-RW. RW flying is like being a bumble bee.  Take off go over here and stop, look around, then zoom over there...

 

They are awesome and like anything, each type usually performs it's design purpose well.  Covering ground efficiently is not one of them.

 

I'm Army trained and flew the -64A while I was Active Duty.  Fun. Max ~140ktas with the missile racks and rocket launchers. Cruise was 100-120. I've heard they'll make ~170ktas with the pylons removed but I never experienced that. It was like a magic carpet ride.  I will always remember the last day I flew it.  Bitter-Sweet memory. Everything I do from here on will pale in comparison.

 

Since then, I have flown an R-22 (neat. felt like the RW version of the C-152) and a S-300CB (same feeling) Both fine A/C but slow, S-300 Vh was ~70kias.

 

EC-120's are kind of like, EuroCopters version of the Jet Ranger but a little faster, more comfortable, but they have more plastic.  Still Nice. I Liked it.  

 

Jet Rangers or OH-58A/C's, are fun and easy to fly. 80-90 kias-ish. short on legs, simple design, last long. My last '206' flight was in an OH-58A+ that was made in 1970.  It was older that me.  It flew like a champ. There are vintage helicopters.  Just not Fly-In's 

 

EC-145's are really nice. You can carry 2 pilots, and 5 people or ~1200lbs of cargo in the back.  Lots of capability, relatively speaking. Full up 2 axis Autopilot with glass and 2 G-430W's.  It will fly it all if programmed correctly. All you have to do is move the collective. Or, you can enjoy the flying it yourself.  Up at altitude, you may get 135-145ktas. Down low I plan for 115-120 comfortably. For a helicopter it has longer legs.  Most others I flew (without external or internal aux tanks) carried ~2+30 in gas.  The 145 will give about 3+20.

 

I'd love to fly a -60L or -60M, but that's not in the cards. I have never heard an ill word about 'Hawks.  Amazing machines.

 

On 'my' high end of the FW side, having flown small (53,000# MTOW) Turbo-jets was exhilarating, until I got the hang of it. Instead of thinking a few miles ahead, I was thinking 80+ miles ahead. (think TS avoidance)  After getting comfortable, I was extremely bored at cruise.  Great for moving around the country but little stimulus. I felt catatonic. 

 

The closest thing I have found on the FW side are King Airs.  Fun and they keep you engaged.  You're only moving ~4 miles/minute but they are good honest airplanes.  I truly enjoy them. Plus, they don't take you far away from your family...

 

IMHO, the best mix of moving across terra firma and getting to enjoy the scenery scroll by is light FW GA .

 

If you need to turn a nut and open your toolbox; you pick the best tool for the job.  Some times it's a box end, a ratchet or vise-grips.

RW is something I highly encourage people to try.  Going out and giving it an honest try will dispel all the wives tails you hear about it.

Funny, you only hear the wives tales from the people with the least experience.

[Gone]

Hobbit:

 

I remember sitting next to one of our Reserve Squadron Commanders back in 2006 on a commercial flight and she flew the Kiowa (OH58) in her reserve service.   She explained to me that the big difference in mentality between FW and RW was that FW folks "get-up, get-over, and get-down" and RW folks "get-up, get-over, and get-to-work."

 

Works for me. Getting up, then over, and then down is exactly why I fly a Mooney.  It does that very well, thank you.

[N601RX]

I had looked at one of these a few years ago.  They are available with Turbine or Piston.  I watched them fly at Sun-In-Fun a couple of years ago.  The factory pilot demoed that he could control the directional movement by just shifting his weight around. He was also doing some demo autorotations.  He would kill power at about 10ft, land then lift off rotate 90 deg and land again with motor still off.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/index.asp

[1964-M20E]

I had looked at one of these a few years ago.  They are available with Turbine or Piston.  I watched them fly at Sun-In-Fun a couple of years ago.  The factory pilot demoed that he could control the directional movement by just shifting his weight around. He was also doing some demos to show the blade inertia.  He would kill power at about 10ft, land then lift off rotate 90 deg and land again with motor still off.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/index.asp

I like these as well and if I had an extra $40k hanging around with not specified purpose I’d get one. 

Still I'd keep my Mooney. Unless one day the FAA says I can't fly due to medical then I'd go with the ultralight version for fun flying.

[N601RX]

If I remember correctly depending on how they were equip they fell under part 103 as a ultralight, which does not require a license.  They had some kind of discount on the final part of the kit if you would show them were you had 10 hrs of dual.

[bonal]

If any one is into a good read on the subject check out the book Chickenhawk. It's written by Robert Mason (I think) story about a young guy wants to fly signs up to be a warrant and ends up in Vietnam he really puts you in the cockpit lots of amazing stories.

[fantom]

 

Though never looking forward to it, the best of chopper rides, from these courageous crews. Otherwise, no thanks!

 

A good chopper story:

 

 

Born in March 1943 in Sedalia, Missouri, Fleming entered military service at Pullman, Washington. In 1968, he was an aircraft commander of a UH-1F transport helicopter assigned to the 20th Special Operations Squadron at Ban Me Thuot in the Republic of Vietnam. On November 26, a six-man reconnaissance team of Army Special Forces Green Berets had been lifted into Vietnam's western highlands, near the Cambodian border and about 30 miles (48 km) west of Pleiku. Hours later, they found themselves penned up next to a river, with enemy forces on the three remaining sides. The team leader's call for immediate evacuation was received by an Air Force forward air controller (FAC), as well as Fleming's nearby flight of five UH-1s. All five helicopters, despite being low on fuel, headed toward the coordinates while the FAC briefed them on the situation.

The Green Berets were taking heavy fire from six heavy machine guns and an undetermined number of enemy troops. As soon as the helicopters sighted the team's smoke, the gunships opened fire, knocking out two machine gun positions. One gunship was hit and crash-landed across the river, its crew picked up by another of the transports. A second transport, low on fuel, had to pull out of formation and return to base. There were only two helicopters left, Fleming's and one other that was almost out of ammunition.

Hovering just above the jungle treetops, Fleming inspected the only clearing near enough for the troops to reach and found it impossible to land there. He instead flew over the river and hovered just above the water, with his landing skids against the bank, hoping that the special forces troops would be able to run the few yards to his helicopter safely. In addition to exposing his aircraft to ground fire, this maneuver was a balancing act that required great piloting skill. After waiting for several minutes, the reconnaissance team radioed that they couldn't survive a dash to the helicopter. Fleming lifted his UH-1 out of range of the hostile fire.

The FAC directed the Green Berets to detonate their mines as Fleming made a last attempt to rescue them. As the mines exploded, he again lowered his helicopter to the river bank, balancing against it, giving the Green Berets an open cargo door through which to leap to safety. The enemy soldiers concentrated their fire on the UH-1. The Green Berets ran for the chopper, firing as they ran and killing three Viet Cong barely 10 feet (3.0 m) from the aircraft. As they leaped through the cargo door, Fleming once more backed the helicopter away from the bank and flew down the river to safety.

In a ceremony at the White House on May 14, 1970, President Richard Nixon presented the Medal of Honor to Fleming for his actions during the rescue. Fleming's other decorations include the Silver Star, the Distinguished Flying Cross and eight Air Medals.

Fleming remained in the Air Force, becoming a colonel and a member of the Officer Training School staff at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, before his retirement in 1996.

Fleming's official Medal of Honor citation reads:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Capt. Fleming (then 1st Lt.) distinguished himself as the Aircraft Commander of a UH-1F transport Helicopter. Capt. Fleming went to the aid of a 6-man special forces long range reconnaissance patrol that was in danger of being overrun by a large, heavily armed hostile force. Despite the knowledge that 1 helicopter had been downed by intense hostile fire, Capt. Fleming descended, and balanced his helicopter on a river bank with the tail boom hanging over open water. The patrol could not penetrate to the landing site and he was forced to withdraw. Dangerously low on fuel, Capt. Fleming repeated his original landing maneuver. Disregarding his own safety, he remained in this exposed position. Hostile fire crashed through his windscreen as the patrol boarded his helicopter. Capt. Fleming made a successful takeoff through a barrage of hostile fire and recovered safely at a forward base. Capt. Fleming's profound concern for his fellowmen, and at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country

[bonal]

First ride was in an old Sikorsky with a round engine they spun up the big fly wheel with a start cart and dumped all the energy into the motor till nothing then BANG black smoke shaking until they got the rotor up to speed. No side door real fun ride. After that I did infra red transition line patrols. I remember dropping in over a ridge I had my head in the scope started to hear the rotors whopping and I asked the pilot to slow the decent and he said he was all the way up on the collective. We had to make a few passes to get the temps on that section of wires. Wild ride.

My last RW ride was to survey the damage to the elect distribution and transition lines the morning after the Oakland hills fire in 91

We were making passes N/S while the air attack guys were working E/W on alternating runs. The governor wanted to do a fly over and the ATC guys told them they had to wait until the PG&E guys were clear. HA HA!

[EDNR-Cruiser]

RW is something I highly encourage people to try.  Going out and giving it an honest try will dispel all the wives tails you hear about it.

Funny, you only hear the wives tales from the people with the least experience.

 

I second the hobbit on this... - no chance to understand and comment on this subject as long as you haven't flown your solo on a RW. I flew small helicopters in the 80es for the German Armed Forces, the old Alouette II, if someone remembers...

It is a different type of flying and your attention is focused on completely different things than in a fixed wing...

Even though I would love to fly a RW again after 30 years I would not be able to afford one... - plus I am absolutely happy with my Mooney, which just suits me and my mission profile perfectly well....   

[Gone]

EDNR-Cruiser:

 

Another Army story:

 

Canadian Land Staff College (like your Hamburg course for Capt to Maj students) visited some II Korps units as part of our tour of NATO forces in 1981.  We had been ribbing our Huey and Kiowa pilots that they were "drivers," and being the good airforce types they are (all military pilots in Canada are part of the Air Force regardless of which branch their mission serves) they all kept insisting that they were not "drivers" but "pilots."

 

All was well until we got to the BO-105 demonstration stand.  The hauptmann gave us his spiel about how they would conduct the mission and destroy enemy tanks etc and he ended his presentation with the following words pointing to the young pilot that was the equivalent of a Lieutenant at the time:  "I am the aircraft commander, and this is the driver."

 

True story.

[gsxrpilot]

A good friend of mine in Australia musters cattle with a Storch.  Most cattle mustering is done with R22's, but he reckons he's even more maneuverable in the Storch than other's are in the R22.  I've seen some of his flying and it's unreal what can be done with an aircraft like that by someone who flies it every day for work.

[1964-M20E]

I love helicopters and always have.  I have flown in them often for work but one day I'll take at least 2 hours instruction in one just to be able to say I actually flew a helicopter.  I do not want to get the rotor wing rating simply because they cost too much to operate and I do not want own another flying machine.  Now should I win the lottery that would be different. :-))

Funny what a few of years and a couple of hours in a helicopter will do to you.  Four months after the referenced post I did my first helicopter lesson (this is the crack cocaine of aviation).  I has taken me 3 years but I was never in a rush to get my license.   However, as of yesterday I now have my helicopter license. 

I also have an opportunity to fly a helicopter for the sheriff's office where I am a reserve deputy.  So ultimately that was my real motivation to compete and get my license.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2015 by 1964-M20E

[PTK]

I started my training in helicopters and have some hours. But I realized early on that for what I was looking to get out of aviation a helicopter wasn't practical. Fixed wing is way more practical for what I really wanted. Which is to take trips and and travel. Also to own one and spend all that in maintenance to just fly around the patch for fun wasn't really for me. Definitely fun though!

Edited November 6, 2015 by PTK

[chrisk]

I'd love to fly a helicopter.  A gyro plane is a second for me (and super easy to fly).   Neither give me the utility of a Mooney.  Perhaps I would feel different if I lived on a ranch.  

[MooneyBob]

Flew Airbus helicopter ( as a passenger) last week and we landed on the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Pretty awesome. 

[1964-M20E]

Like anything else the tool depends on your job you wouldn't buy a Corvette to haul furniture.

I'm not getting rid of my Mooney anytime soon just adding more opportunities to fly.

[aviatoreb]

Like anything else the tool depends on your job you wouldn't buy a Corvette to haul furniture.

 

Why not?